TL-191: After the End

[David bar Elias]

How that is even possible? Germany and USA got their own superbomb even earlier that USA in OTL. I would had imaginated that there would had been already for or five other nations which would had possessed superbombs.

During the first generation after the end of the SGW, both the USA and Germany acted aggressively to prevent intervention proliferation, with US efforts directed against the Japanese Empire and German efforts directed against the Russian Empire.

This admittedly loosely-coordinated US-German strategy began to break down in the 1960s, when the new Russian Republic established good diplomatic relations with the US and the US defeated Japan in the Fourth Pacific War. During the 1970s-1990s, there were several countries that developed the capacity to produce superbombs, without actually building them; this was a lingering legacy of the fear of possible US/German preventive actions in response to testing a weapon.

The catalyst in TTL for the final collapse of the international anti-proliferation “consensus” will occur in October 2025, when both Bharat and China, as part of a period of sustained tensions between the two great powers, conduct superbomb tests within days of each other.

 

[DeltaEnterprise252]

During the first generation after the end of the SGW, both the USA and Germany acted aggressively to prevent intervention proliferation, with US efforts directed against the Japanese Empire and German efforts directed against the Russian Empire.

This admittedly loosely-coordinated US-German strategy began to break down in the 1960s, when the new Russian Republic established good diplomatic relations with the US and the US defeated Japan in the Fourth Pacific War. During the 1970s-1990s, there were several countries that developed the capacity to produce superbombs, without actually building them; this was a lingering legacy of the fear of possible US/German preventive actions in response to testing a weapon.

The catalyst in TTL for the final collapse of the international anti-proliferation “consensus” will occur in October 2025, when both Bharat and China, as part of a period of sustained tensions between the two great powers, conduct superbomb tests within days of each other.

I'm assuming the reason why the U.S and Germany didn't attack Bharat and China since that seemed to be possibly a combination of behind the scenes approval, economic ties, the military alliance, and an unwillingness to ultimately attack what are at the very least relatively stable and rational powers.

 

[David bar Elias]

I'm assuming the reason why the U.S and Germany didn't attack Bharat and China since that seemed to be possibly a combination of behind the scenes approval, economic ties, the military alliance, and an unwillingness to ultimately attack what are at the very least relatively stable and rational powers.

Yes. By the time of the October 2025 tests, the German Empire and the European Community have close security ties with Bharat and the Chennai Pact; a legacy of the role played by the German Empire during the 1980s/90s in assisting Bharati efforts at modernizing its armed forces and expanding its navy.

In 2025, the USA had enjoyed close economic and security cooperation with China since the Fourth Pacific War, and was allied with China (and Russia) through the Pacific Economic and Security Accord (PESA). The USA had also previously supported China, diplomatically and through arms shipments, against Bharat during the Tibetan War in the 1970s.

For these reasons, as well as the factors that you mentioned, neither Germany or the USA were in a position to respond to these competing superbomb tests with severe measures, or really measures of any significance.

 

[PGSBHurricane]

Is Germany's still America's biggest ally here or did someone else take over that role?

 

[David bar Elias]

Is Germany's still America's biggest ally here or did someone else take over that role?

The USA and the German Empire are still friends on the world stage, but not in the same way as during the two Great Wars. Both great powers, since the end of the SGW, have built up additional security alliances of their own.

The USA, by 2021, has established friendly economic and security ties with China and Russia through the Pacific Economic and Security Accord (PESA), and has established friendly economic and security ties with the Empire of Brazil through the Council of the Western Hemisphere. The USA, Brazil, China, and Russia also cooperate through a common international space agency/alliance.

 

[BigAbeRangel]

In TTL, while Francisco Jose II was overthrown, he wasn’t executed. Instead, he and the rest of Mexico’s royal family were exiled. The former dynasty briefly settled in Spain, before settling in Austria-Hungary as their permanent place of exile.

In 2021, there is no nostalgia in Mexico for the imperial regime, and no organization of any note calling for the dynasty’s restoration.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your OP says the contrary--unless you have decided to retcon it since you posted it.

After the End​

---

June, 1945—A U.S. sponsored coup in Mexico removes Emperor Francisco Jose from power, who is executed by the perpetrators. A junta of pro-Republican military officers takes control in Mexico City, promising Philadelphia that they will move to establish Mexico as a representative democracy “at all deliberate speed.” The political chaos in Mexico, combined with the shattered postwar economy, sparks a large migration into the United States.​

By the way, is the Mexican Imperial Family ATL descendants of either Princes Agustin de Iturbide y Green or Salvador de Iturbide y Marzán, whom were adopted by Maximillian and Carlota as they were an infertile couple. Or is it not ? As it's been speculated that Maximillian never intended to give them to his adopted children and instead give them to either his brother Karl Ludwig or one of his sons, as he believed the Iturbides were not of royal blood. Or could from another European prince?

 

[David bar Elias]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your OP says the contrary--unless you have decided to retcon it since you posted it.

By the way, is the Mexican Imperial Family ATL descendants of either Princes Agustin de Iturbide y Green or Salvador de Iturbide y Marzán, whom were adopted by Maximillian and Carlota as they were an infertile couple. Or is it not ? As it's been speculated that Maximillian never intended to give them to his adopted children and instead give them to either his brother Karl Ludwig or one of his sons, as he believed the Iturbides were not of royal blood. Or could from another European prince?

Corrected the reply to reflect the original post.

The Mexican royal family were ATL descendants of both Agustin de Iturbide y Green and Salvador de Iturbide y Marzán.

 

[BigAbeRangel]

Corrected the reply to reflect the original post.

The Mexican royal family were ATL descendants of both Agustin de Iturbide y Green and Salvador de Iturbide y Marzán.

By the way, when does Maximilian die, if not, abdicate the throne? What's the line of succession like afterwards? Does this actually mean Prince Agustin becomes the Emperor Maximilian II mentioned in How Few Remain (since he was most likely the adopted heir apparent), as he would've been barley 18 when the Second Mexican War begins. IOTL he died childless and the Head of the Imperial Family passed to Prince Salvador's daughter, Maria Josefa. If I had to speculate, TLL's Francisco José I die childless during the Civil War and the throne passes to Salvador's line with Maximilian III becoming emperor. Also what are/were relations like between the Empress Carlota/Iturbides and the rest of the Habsburgs despite their respective countries ending up on opposite side of the Great Wars? It's more of a topic for Filling the Gaps thinking about it and there is speculation there.

 

[David bar Elias]

By the way, when does Maximilian die, if not, abdicate the throne? What's the line of succession like afterwards? Does this actually mean Prince Agustin becomes the Emperor Maximilian II mentioned in How Few Remain (since he was most likely the adopted heir apparent), as he would've been barley 18 when the Second Mexican War begins. IOTL he died childless and the Head of the Imperial Family passed to Prince Salvador's daughter, Maria Josefa. If I had to speculate, TLL's Francisco José I die childless during the Civil War and the throne passes to Salvador's line with Maximilian III becoming emperor. Also what are/were relations like between the Empress Carlota/Iturbides and the rest of the Habsburgs despite their respective countries ending up on opposite side of the Great Wars? It's more of a topic for Filling the Gaps thinking about it and there is speculation there.

I’m afraid that I’m unable to provide answers to those questions. As you wrote, these seem more like questions for the “Filling in the Gaps” thread.

 

[Batguy01]

Since citizens of the USA, Germany, and other countries are automatically conscripted into the army after High School (or the equivalent of in the other countries of the ISC permanent council), what about people who have disabilities (both mental and physical), how do they contribute to their country's army?

Speaking of which, how are people with mental and physical disabilities treated in the ISC permanent council countries, including future members, the Congo and Persia?

 

[German Kaiser Wilhelm IV]

David, I love your series. I have several questions about it!

• How are U.S. relations with Britain and France as of present day? Will there ever be a rapprochement?
• Is there a "United America" movement hat calla for the annexation of Texas? What % of people in Texas and the USA want a unification?
• Does the capital get moved back to D.C.?
• What is the state of neo-Canadianism and neo-Confederatism in modern America?

 

[David bar Elias]

Since citizens of the USA, Germany, and other countries are automatically conscripted into the army after High School (or the equivalent of in the other countries of the ISC permanent council), what about people who have disabilities (both mental and physical), how do they contribute to their country's army?

Speaking of which, how are people with mental and physical disabilities treated in the ISC permanent council countries, including future members, the Congo and Persia?

It’s possible, in each of the great powers, to receive medical exemptions from national service, depending on the case in question.

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In the USA, by 2021, one major difference from OTL is that no equivalent of our world’s Community Mental Health Act was passed, meaning that there has not been a widespread move towards deinstitutionalization. In the US, the Bureau of Asylums (BoA) oversees the network of federally-funded mental health facilities, including hospitals.

The US state-supported mental health system is not dissimilar from analogous systems in other countries, although funding levels and the overall quality of care varies, depending on the country in question. In the vast majority of countries, including in all of the great powers, there is the expectation that the state should assume full responsibility for those in need of mental health-related treatments and monitoring.

 

[Born in the USSA]

It’s possible, in each of the great powers, to receive medical exemptions from national service, depending on the case in question.

-
In the USA, by 2021, one major difference from OTL is that no equivalent of our world’s Community Mental Health Act was passed, meaning that there has not been a widespread move towards deinstitutionalization. In the US, the Bureau of Asylums (BoA) oversees the network of federally-funded mental health facilities, including hospitals.

The US state-supported mental health system is not dissimilar from analogous systems in other countries, although funding levels and the overall quality of care varies, depending on the country in question. In the vast majority of countries, including in all of the great powers, there is the expectation that the state should assume full responsibility for those in need of mental health-related treatments and monitoring.

How very enlightened!

 

[David bar Elias]

David, I love your series. I have several questions about it!

• How are U.S. relations with Britain and France as of present day? Will there ever be a rapprochement?
• Is there a "United America" movement hat calla for the annexation of Texas? What % of people in Texas and the USA want a unification?
• Does the capital get moved back to D.C.?
• What is the state of neo-Canadianism and neo-Confederatism in modern America?

The US government fully relocates back to Washington, DC after the end of the SGW, even as the city undergoes extensive reconstruction. This is both to symbolize the reunion of the country, and due to the devastation of Philadelphia at the end of the conflict.

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In 2021, the US no longer views the UK and France as enemies. However, neither country is viewed as an ally, and neither country will ever approach the high esteem that still exists in the US for the German Empire and Austro-Hungarian Empire.

-
There are those in both the US and Texas who would like to see a reunion, although in Texas those who favor reunion tend to be muted. Many Texans who favor reunion with the US are from the state’s extensive business community.

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In 2021, there is a positive Canadian-American identity that was rooted in accepting US rule in exchange for the protections of the Constitution. This in turn was accepted by US society as a whole.

In contrast, there is no large-scale movement in the former CSA to resurrect the Confederacy, not least because the US military and various law enforcement agencies have ruthlessly suppressed such groups. There are extremist “neo-Confederate” groups in the US in 2021, but virtually all such groups also tend to be involved in activities such as organized crime, which in turn usually draws the attention of the Bureau of Investigation.

 

[GrandMaster]

How are LGBT rights like in the United States?

 

[German Kaiser Wilhelm IV]

The US government fully relocates back to Washington, DC after the end of the SGW, even as the city undergoes extensive reconstruction. This is both to symbolize the reunion of the country, and due to the devastation of Philadelphia at the end of the conflict.

-
In 2021, the US no longer views the UK and France as enemies. However, neither country is viewed as an ally, and neither country will ever approach the high esteem that still exists in the US for the German Empire and Austro-Hungarian Empire.

-
There are those in both the US and Texas who would like to see a reunion, although in Texas those who favor reunion tend to be muted. Many Texans who favor reunion with the US are from the state’s extensive business community.

-
In 2021, there is a positive Canadian-American identity that was rooted in accepting US rule in exchange for the protections of the Constitution. This in turn was accepted by US society as a whole.

In contrast, there is no large-scale movement in the former CSA to resurrect the Confederacy, not least because the US military and various law enforcement agencies have ruthlessly suppressed such groups. There are extremist “neo-Confederate” groups in the US in 2021, but virtually all such groups also tend to be involved in activities such as organized crime, which in turn usually draws the attention of the Bureau of Investigation.

Thanks! Love your work!

 

[filrabat]

How are LGBT rights like in the United States?

Gays are allowed to serve in the US military since 1986, although gay marriage / partnership issues are about 10 years behind OTL USA.

 

[Batguy01]

As of 2020, LGBT rights varies by country.

In the United States, there was never an equivalent to our world’s Defense of Marriage Act. Additionally, there was never a real equivalent of “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” in the modern US military; gay men were allowed to serve openly beginning in 1986. By the 2000s, federal legislation had been passed intending to address discrimination regarding employment and retirement benefits for same sex couples.

However, in the US in 2020, the issue of same-sex marriage remains a source of political controversy. While some states have legalized same sex marriage, other states have either banned it, or have passed laws allowing for same sex “domestic partnerships”, but not marriage. In 2020, the Supreme Court is expected to issue a ruling on the matter.

During the 2010s, debates in some areas of the US regarding same sex marriage were also affected by the Tens Revival - the name given to a religious revival driven by a surge in growth in some fundamentalist Protestant churches, especially in the Rocky Mountain West and in the Caribbean states.

There are also debates, in 2020, in the Austria-Hungarian Empire, the Empire of Brazil, and the German Empire over legalizing same sex marriage, although this is opposed in all three empires by social conservative groups.

As of 2020, LGBT rights remain curtailed in Bharat, the Russian Republic, throughout the Middle East. LGBT rights in Japan were also suppressed, during the time of the Japanese Workers Republic.

 

[Batguy01]

Which country/ faction controls the Suez Canal by 2021, as well as the canal's history in TTL?

 

[David bar Elias]

Which country/ faction controls the Suez Canal by 2021, as well as the canal's history in TTL?

In 2021, the Kingdom of Egypt controls the Suez Canal.

Following the end of the Second Great War, the Suez Canal was under joint Ottoman-Egyptian administration. The Egyptians assumed full control over the canal following the beginning of the Ottoman Dissolution in the early 2010s.