TL-191: After the End
- Thread starter David bar Elias
- Start date
It's funny if you've read even one novel where he appears...
Which is sad, since Carsten was one of my favorites in the series (if for no other reason than his career almost exactly paralleled my grandfather's Navy service in WWII and Korea).
Same here. I'm eagerly waiting on what the Japanese are up to, and the Ottomans and the other "non-aligned" states. Of course, the Russian Bear is not to be ignored, either.
Lining themselves up for a good kicking by the USA
Not non-aligned, but German allies who will be propped up because they have a lot of oil.
Probably forming an informal non-aligned group a la our TL.
Undergoing a dirty war between the government and the Red Menace.
Zimmerwald1915
Banned
What's going to happen with Persia/Iran? To my knowlege, Turtledove never mentions it, but if Germany's sphere of influence is going to encompass the OTL Arab oil states (Arabia, Mesopotamia, etc.), then the US is going to want other sources.
Obviously, Venezuela and Mexico would work well for this purpose, but IOTL the USA after WWII was very interested in expanding its hold on Iran.
Obviously, Venezuela and Mexico would work well for this purpose, but IOTL the USA after WWII was very interested in expanding its hold on Iran.
In TL-191 the USA has exclusive access to the Canadian and now Alaskan oilfields. It also probably has a sweetheart deal with the Republic of Texas and can further develop the Gulf Coast reserves with the CSA out of the way (in addition to outright control of the oilfields in Sequoyah and California). Basically the USA controls all of the available petroleum sources in North America. With that being the case, and with Germany still remaining a US ally, the oil issue may not be as critical in this timeline as in OTL.
The Japanese are going to be short; the only sources they control or are allied are Burma and Indonesia. Not exactly the largest fields.
Which might lead them to either pioneer alternative fuel technology or (more likely) seek to grab oil elsewhere. Another Japan-Russia matchup, this time over Siberia perhaps? Who does the USA ally with in this scenario, considering that neither country is friendly in this TL? Most likely the USA either backs Russia in order to keep Japan weak, or sits this one out.
Given how weak Japan's economy and economic performence were, plus having utterly destroyed her relationship with any potential allies, I would predict a minimum of a humiliating Japanese defeat at the hands of the Russians and a triple effort by the US, Russia and Germany to force a Japanese surrender in a worst case scenario.
Then again, I've made my contempt for how Turtledove presented Japan's role clear many times now.
Then again, I've made my contempt for how Turtledove presented Japan's role clear many times now.
Any update on the 'Where are they now?' section? Interested in seeing what happens to that scumbag Lavochkin, for some reason.
Well the US and Russian relationship in TTL aren't out right terrible since Russia did support the US during the war of succession until after the failed Alaskan purchase. Both countries never fought each other during either of the great wars. Both hate Japan and have scores to settle with it. I wouldn't put it past the US to Ally with Russia out of convenience and finally show the Japanese what it's like to actually fight a war.
Both the USA and Russia have an interest in containing Japanese expansion; Germany less so because Japan's interests don't necessarily connect with Germany. Does Germany keep the Tsingdao treaty port and Samoa--territories they lost after OTL WWI--in TL-191? Did they attempt to grab a piece of the Philippines when Spain lost them (something they were prepared to try during the Spanish-American War in OTL?) If so, then Germany does have a dog in the fight after all and may try to grab additional Asian territory at Japan's expense.
If the US and Russia wanted to fight Japan, Germany could care less and nobody else is big enough anymore to matter. The US Navy sends Japan's fleet to the bottom while the Russian Army deals with Japan's land and air forces, so no worries about exchange of technology with a potential hostile power. Of course, all of the major nations in TL-191 seem to be at technological parity so it doesn't sound like anyone would gain an edge.
The British might still have their traditional alliance with Japan but they've been knocked down a long way and the Germans aren't about to let them back up. If anything Japan's now the senior partner in that alliance.
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Actually the Japanese betrayed the British near the end of the second great war so both countries are no longer allied to each other, and the British are now no longer a power and never will be again, France is done as a power as well and is now entirely at Germany's whim, Russia is the only Entente country that still has the opportunity to remain powerful but they still have the Germans to worry about, The US is allied to Germany and after all the trouble that happened by not dealing with potential trouble makers both are gonna put aside their rivalry. Austria is on the verge of falling apart so they have no chance of being a great power. and Japan pissed off all it's former allies and further pissed off it current enemies and as the series showed, when it came to actually fighting a one on one war Japan was always getting beat and could only at best win a draw, Japan is screwed.
So basically the US and Germany are now the only "real" Great powers and both are on the verge of becoming superpowers, allied superpowers I might add. Russia still has a chance, Austria glory days are gone and it's completely dependent on Germany as is the Ottoman Empire (but not to the same extent), and lastly Japan has dug it's own grave, it'll just take Russia and the US the bury them.
The way Turtledove had Japan seize Germany's colonies in the Pacific and Germany forget about them was absurd. The German High Seas Fleet outclassed the IJN by an astounding margin in 1914 and the major difference would appear to be the Japanese ships sunk or undergoing repair following the 'Battle of the Three Navies' in this TL.
I suppose from Germany's perspective the one concern would be Russia and the US joining forces, given that Japan is both weaker than either militarily and untrustworthy to boot, not to mention how Australia, New Zealand, the UK and more feel about Japan.
Otherwise pushing Japan off the mainland but leaving Japan as a permanent rival to Russia might be just what Germany wants.
I suppose from Germany's perspective the one concern would be Russia and the US joining forces, given that Japan is both weaker than either militarily and untrustworthy to boot, not to mention how Australia, New Zealand, the UK and more feel about Japan.
Otherwise pushing Japan off the mainland but leaving Japan as a permanent rival to Russia might be just what Germany wants.