Not to mention the fact that, just as IOTL, there probably would be a big migration of northerners into the south, bringing their culture with them, changing some cities (like Atlanta) and some regions (southern FL) with at least a veneer of "northerness".
TL-191: After the End
- Thread starter David bar Elias
- Start date
Not to mention the fact that, just as IOTL, there probably would be a big migration of northerners into the south, bringing their culture with them, changing some cities (like Atlanta) and some regions (southern FL) with at least a veneer of "northerness".
In particular I suspect that TTL's USA will experience profound demographic shifts in the 1950s - 1970s because of the surviving ~few million blacks fleeing the south for the north, or even for what once was Canada, plus the aftermath of the war and rebuilding would likely render property very cheap for years to come. Whites who want to move to sunnier climates and don't mind the humidity would probably find it easy to make a go of in the former CSA.
Don't forget that impact of the Air Conditioner on how many northerners would move South!
I also wonder how long the Irish government kept any ban they may have imposed on British tourists (given that DBE mentioned in an earlier post that they would most likely have not allowed Ivo Peters to record the last days of the 3ft-gauge railways like the Tralee & Dingle). Also, whether there's still lingering animosity between the two nations, and what the Old Firm matches are like.
Also, I wonder if it ever crossed the USA's mind to use the few surviving Whigs (like the mayor of Fayetteville) to help with reconstruction. Those Whigs/Rad Libs might be willing to go along with it, considering that the US Army saved their lives when they liberated the factories.
Also, I wonder if it ever crossed the USA's mind to use the few surviving Whigs (like the mayor of Fayetteville) to help with reconstruction. Those Whigs/Rad Libs might be willing to go along with it, considering that the US Army saved their lives when they liberated the factories.
Coming back to this TL....
I got a question about Alaska: is it ever gonna be a state? Or will it remain a territory for a while yet?
I got a question about Alaska: is it ever gonna be a state? Or will it remain a territory for a while yet?
I thought it had become a state by this point in time...if Nunavut and Yukon are states, surely Alaska is.
I thought it went up into the '80s. Well, I'm not sure how you're going to homestead in Alaska. Not much room for farming there. Short growing season in terms of days, but those 90 days or whatever have pretty much round-the-clock sunshine.
To be fair, there was much less time between annexation and statehood in this TL than in OTL: 32 years (1948-1980) as opposed to 92 (1867-1959).
I'm going to say that it likely ended as the each territory got statehood. So by the 1990s it is over in Yukon and Nunavut. There was probably a different situation for the Pacific States.
IMO the biggest unanswered question is when and how were Canadians given citizenship? With the resistance depicted in the books - specially in Manitoba, for some reason - I doubt everyone got citizenship on the get go. Was this given to every resident of the occupied territory as they were given statehood? In the meantime how did the government treat Canadian property? What lands where given to American settlers, and what were former-Canadians entitled to?
- The same questions would then go to former Confederates.
Same here
Let my just say David that I think this is a really good continuation of TL-191. 
I've been a huge fan of the series and mythos for quite a while, and I fell is does it justice for the most part.
Three years ago when I first discovered this site the TL-191 mythos, when I was fourteen, I discovered this thread. Back then I kinda wrote it off since I thought allot of it was implausible and not all of it wasn't how I thought the series would continue. Well, I'm quite older know, more mature both in general and in terms of AH, and I can say proudly that the continuation is very much plausible. Allot of it I could see Turtledove writing himself. About two years ago I read it one or two times again and it did grow on me. I haven't read all of it yet, but a great fan fic if I do say so myself.
There a few minor things a feel are a wee bit implausible, but I guess they can still work. For example, the extent to which you screwed Britain and France to the point where there equivalent to Africa and the Middles east in the 1970's. Also you have Austria-Hungary survive, when Turtledove hinted it wouldn't last long after the war. I also thought there were too many fictional characters toward the last few chapters. Turtledove would have had real people and fictional people co-existing like in the books.
But these flaws are minor to say the least. I love the alternate pop culture you developed, the happier history for Africa, the war with Japan (finally they got there just deserts), and the way you continued allot of the world events were mostly true to what HT would have done (examples: Mexican coup, Seocnd Russian Revolution, the GWII Peace Treaty, etc.)
A very good work to put it shortly. Though I do have one question. I have seen so many TL-191 continuation ideas on this site, including this, and I've thought to myself, why not combine them all into one glorious ubber continuation? Not only will this be part of it, but also some content from the photos thread, and other random TL-191 related threads. Do I have permission from you to write this? I promise I will stay very faithful to this continuation, changes will be minimal. I don't want to make this because of the things I disagree with in this continuation, far from it. I just want to combine every single fans idea into a corrherent timeline/story. I will give every A-H member credit for his or her ideas. So, sounds like a good idea? It's up to you I guess.
I've been a huge fan of the series and mythos for quite a while, and I fell is does it justice for the most part. Three years ago when I first discovered this site the TL-191 mythos, when I was fourteen, I discovered this thread. Back then I kinda wrote it off since I thought allot of it was implausible and not all of it wasn't how I thought the series would continue. Well, I'm quite older know, more mature both in general and in terms of AH, and I can say proudly that the continuation is very much plausible.
Allot of it I could see Turtledove writing himself. About two years ago I read it one or two times again and it did grow on me. I haven't read all of it yet, but a great fan fic if I do say so myself. There a few minor things a feel are a wee bit implausible, but I guess they can still work. For example, the extent to which you screwed Britain and France to the point where there equivalent to Africa and the Middles east in the 1970's. Also you have Austria-Hungary survive, when Turtledove hinted it wouldn't last long after the war. I also thought there were too many fictional characters toward the last few chapters. Turtledove would have had real people and fictional people co-existing like in the books.
But these flaws are minor to say the least. I love the alternate pop culture you developed, the happier history for Africa, the war with Japan (finally they got there just deserts
), and the way you continued allot of the world events were mostly true to what HT would have done (examples: Mexican coup, Seocnd Russian Revolution, the GWII Peace Treaty, etc.)A very good work to put it shortly.
Though I do have one question. I have seen so many TL-191 continuation ideas on this site, including this, and I've thought to myself, why not combine them all into one glorious ubber continuation? Not only will this be part of it, but also some content from the photos thread, and other random TL-191 related threads. Do I have permission from you to write this? I promise I will stay very faithful to this continuation, changes will be minimal. I don't want to make this because of the things I disagree with in this continuation, far from it. I just want to combine every single fans idea into a corrherent timeline/story. I will give every A-H member credit for his or her ideas. So, sounds like a good idea? It's up to you I guess.It never read to me as if Britain and France were doing that bad... They seem to be much more the equivalent of Japan in OTL. After the war sure, three British cities and Paris were nuked. But afterwards they rebuilt heavily and fast, and have since integrated themselves into the EC. By the 1990s they, as a partnership, seem to be a big competitor in the consumer-tech market en par with the US and Germany.
They even went through their own weird pop-culture trend "the happy wave" in the 1980s.
Well they managed to survive the first GW. Lets assume the necessary reforms were made during the interwar period. Despite the country still being referred to as Austria Hungary, politically it is probably much more akin to the United States of Greater Austria proposal that was floating in OTL before the outbreak of WWI.
A lot of them are descendants of in Timeline characters, which is cool.
But these flaws are minor to say the least. I love the alternate pop culture you developed, the happier history for Africa, the war with Japan (finally they got there just deserts
One thing I would be very interested in knowing, is how they "happier" Africa has affected European (specifically German) culture overall.
Let my just say David that I think this is a really good continuation of TL-191.
Thank you!
Three years ago when I first discovered this site the TL-191 mythos, when I was fourteen, I discovered this thread. Back then I kinda wrote it off since I thought allot of it was implausible and not all of it wasn't how I thought the series would continue. Well, I'm quite older know, more mature both in general and in terms of AH, and I can say proudly that the continuation is very much plausible.
It's taken me a while to get this far. I hope that in terms of writing and plausibility, it has improved since then.
France and the UK certainly have it rough for the first generation after the Second Great War, but things begin to improve significantly in the 1960s.
My thought on Austria-Hungary was that if that empire could survive the strains of two Great Wars and the interwar Business Collapse, it stood a decent chance of lasting on through the twenty-first century.
I admit I was trying to move away from the "no-butterfly effect" rule of the original TL-191. For example, it would have strained credibility to have the same US political figures showing up in TTL and doing the exact same things as their OTL counterparts.
But these flaws are minor to say the least. I love the alternate pop culture you developed, the happier history for Africa, the war with Japan (finally they got there just deserts
I'm glad that it goes well with the source material, although I'm sure there's always room for improvement.
A very good work to put it shortly.
If it's alright, I would prefer to leave this ATL as a standalone project; the primary reasons being a) it's not completed, and b) there is a lot of material from the other threads that I believe contradicts aspects of this ATL.
However, I am not against outsiders contributing additional material to this ATL (in terms of photos, illustrations, or write-ups). If you would like to contribute something in that regard, feel free to PM me with your ideas.
I have an announcement to make. I'm afraid that I have not yet completed the 2000s update. Since I'm going to be very busy over the next three months, I will be unable to post the update in the near future. My apologies for the delay.
The 2000s will be posted in June.
The 2000s will be posted in June.
Vexacus
Banned
Please, take your time. The longer we wait, the more we will be drooling in anticipation of said update