Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by David bar Elias, Aug 17, 2008.
You have to actually read the thread.
Wow... that was one massive update. And it was great, too! Can't wait to see the 2000s...
OK, my early guesses :
Burma = Czechoslovakia
Ottoman Empire = Yugoslavia (in the making)
ComboNet = OK, sounds etymologically sound
In 2000, then ?!
Yup, that's the map on the first day of the year 2000.
All righty, no problem then.
Wow, given the context of TL-191, I'm shocked that Republicans caught up to Socialists in total presidencies before 2000. Still... Awesome!
I will say that Austria-Hungary is not headed for a dissolution in TTL.
The formal name is the Bureau of Intra-Regional Intelligence, more commonly known as the "Intra-Net." It's Bharat's intelligence service.
It will not be a good place to be in the 2000s or the 2010s.
Austria-Hungary is not heading for a collapse in TTL.
The JWR does share certain aspects with the North Korean Juche regime, as well as the more serious aspects of the society depicted in Terry Gilliam's film Brazil.
Thanks! Same to you.
Yes, I thought those were plausible designs.
Thank you. I'm glad you've enjoyed it.
Research into fusion power is ongoing, but it still has not led to a major breakthrough as of 2000.
It depends on the location, among other circumstances.
Excellent work on the map! Much appreciated!
I'm glad it met your expectations. Again, fantastic work on the maps.
Thanks. One correction: President Enos is a Socialist, not a Republican.
It's mostly used as a way to justify the military's total hold on political power.
It is not a good situation for anyone living there as of 2000.
The Socialists held the White House from 1989 to 1993.
I will try to include some more information on Texas for the last update.
The struggle for power between ideological hardliners and reformers within the Syndicalist Party exploded into the open with the end of Sakamoto's regime. The hardliners won.
The situations are analogous in both examples, but not exactly similar to what happened in Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia in our world.
I hope it's a plausible sounding name for an ATL Internet.
The Socialists did hold the White House from 1989 to 1993, before the Tech Recession dashed President's Enos's hopes for a second term.
So as far as I can tell, all Canadian, Caribbean, Mexican, and Pacific states of the Union outside of OTL US Boundaries are (territories shall be lettered and in italics):
1. British Columbia (including Vancouver Island)
6. New Brunswick
7. Nova Scotia
8. Prince Edward Island
9. Newfoundland (including Labrador)
B. Northwest Territories (including Nunavut
1. Baja California
1. Bahamas (including Bermuda and the Turks and Caicos Islands)
2. Cuba (including Isla de Pinos)
3. Jamaica (including Cayman Islands)
5. St. Lucia
8. St. Vincent (including Grenadines)
11. Antigua (including Barbuda)
12. St. Kitts (including Nevis)
13. Trinidad (including Tobago)
A. Virgin Islands (including British Virgin Islands)
B. (former French) St. Martin
D. St. Barthelemy/St. Barts
A. Ryukyu Islands
B. Bonin Islands
That is a total of seventy-six states and eight territories by my reckoning (slicing off South Dakota and Arizona in the flag, but replacing Texas with Houston State).
Did I get them right? The status of French St. Martin, Virgin Islands, and Anguilla is admittedly confusing me, so I included them as territories. Is Vancouver Island its own state as well?
I can see St. Martin as a state including Anguilla and St. Barts, and the Virgin Islands also as its own potential state.
It's probably easier just to list all the states. There are 77 altogether as of the end of the last update:
Antigua (incl. Barbuda)
Bahamas (incl. Bermuda, Turks and Caicos Islands)
Jamaica (incl. Cayman Islands)
Melanesia (Fiji, New Caledonia, Vanuatu)
Micronesia (Micronesia, Palau, Marianas, Guam, Marshall Islands, Kiribati)
New Brunswick (incl. Prince Edward Island)
Newfoundland (incl. Labrador, St. Pierre and Miquelon)
Nunavut (i.e., OTL Nunavut and the Northwest Territories)
Polynesia (former French Polynesia, Pitcairn Islands, Tonga, Tuvalu, Wallis & Futuna, Tokelau, Niue, Cook Islands)
Saint Kitts (incl. Nevis, former British Virgin Islands, Anguilla, Montserrat, St. Barthelemy, St. Martin)
Saint Vincent (incl. the Grenadines)
Trinidad (incl. Tobago)
I believe the only US territories that are not states or parts thereof are DC (of course) and the Ryukyu and Bonin Islands.
I can dig if the West Indian Islands I asked on are part of other states (though I ponder which ones, haha), but are Nunavut/NW Territories and Yukon big enough in population?
I updated my list to include which territories belong to which states -- these are all on DBE's authority, as I've PMed him on the matter in the past. Population of the new states is evidently not much of an issue in this TL.
Also, Vancouver Island is still part of BC and the USVI are Danish in this TL (the US never bought them from Denmark).
I didn't know PEI was not its own state and should have clarified on the 'nesias' island groupings, so good call on finding out!
Yeah, besides my own curiosity, I needed to figure them out to make electoral maps for Turquoise Blue's (later aborted) TL-191 election project.
Amazing update David, as always. Really looking forward to the 2000s, and hopefully you manage to write into the 2010s as well.
Love the balance between politics, tech, and culture you have developed. Through out it. I get a the feeling that with Braco, Surrealist Architecture, Raygun Baroque, etc - as awesome as they sound - someone travelling from OTL to TL 191 might find their tastes to be somewhat tacky and obnoxious. Especially, because this is built over two decades of mostly structuralist and brutalist styles.
The music though probably amazing.
I thought Leo Enos was a Socialist. But just didn't run for reelection - David was there a particular reason for this? I didn't catch it in the update.
Leo Enos is a Socialist, I made a mistake on the list I made...so my bad.
I fixed it, so it should be good.
Wonderful update! Very glad to see the Republicans back in the White House. I am surprised about how many states there are. Is there a reason the U.S. didn't consolidate the Carribean states? Also what kind of casualties are we talking about for the Kashmir War? Cheers.
The State of West Indies (India?) shall be formed, consolidated, and become the greatest of them all!
I actually suspect I would be a Republican in TTL. And it's a bit amusing to see them making inroads into their original base of New England.
(I wonder if Atlantic Canada may be grouped together with New England proper in regional terminology now? BC and Alaska now considered part of the Pacific NW with Washington, Oregon, and NorCal? A new region of 'the Pacific' with Hawaii and the 'nesias? Heh!)
Very cool, David. I'm a bit sad that the timeline is winding down and we've only got one update left before it properly finishes, but all good things come to an end, right? It's been a great ride so far. As always, the cultural segments are some of my favorites. I can't decide if endurance films are painful or would actually be quite cool.
I was actually wondering when the great powers of TL-191 were going to form an agency for refugees. It certainly seems like something that would come along sooner or later, given what you've written here. Will we see them featuring again in the 2000-2009 update in some fashion?
Also: a mammoth getting cloned sometime between 2050-2099? You, sir, are awesome.
Since I don't think it was ever stated: the International Security Council seems a bit like the United Nations in our world. How close would that parallel be? Or is it more like NATO?
Very neat that China seems to be slowly getting on the path of relative prosperity to the rest of the world. Sounds like future world governments, with people speculating in this world, will probably include the U.S., Russia and China (possibly Germany too?), at least in speculative fiction.
A female dictator (er, 'People's Friend'...) in Japan? That was certainly unexpected and very cool. I know that you've stated a North Korea parallel isn't wholly accurate, and you're right, but it certainly seems like it could head that way if reformers don't come in the future.
And the Middle East looks like an absolute mess right now and not getting much better. The Republic of Basra will prove interesting; you've mentioned it's a demilitarized zone, after all. Even while it's territorially respectable, I take it that it's more like a city-state, as its name implies?
I'm also a little surprised that Hyderabad fought on the side of Bharat when places like Borneo and Malaysia didn't. I'm guessing this is because of the fact it had a lot to lose if it didn't? It's surrounded on all sides, after all.
Before I forget: Patrick Gutierrez is our first Hispanic president. Barring some scandal to rock his administration, he'll probably get a second term, so he'll be out in 2005. Will we see one more 'first x' (like first woman) president before the timeline finishes?
The Ryukyu and Bonin islands: are they territories of the U.S. or will they become independent?
Also: I'm a little confused with German Southwest Africa. Is it Germany's last colony, did it become independent, or did it join with the empire like Togoland did?
GREAT update, David!
One little quibble, though. If Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia become states in 1999, they would have representatives and senators in Congress immediately upon their becoming states, or very soon thereafter. There is no precedent for any U.S. state not having representation until the next scheduled election date.
This can be fixed by simply editting out that one statement.
Thanks. I plan to stop this ATL at 2009 though.
It certainly does clash in many cities, especially throughout the European Community and the United States.
The Democrats and the Socialists have had an informal agreement since the end of the Second Great War on the admission of new states--any territory that is likely to vote Democratic must be accompanied by a Socialist-leaning one, and vince versa. It hasn't worked out perfectly, but during the 1970s, as the remaining Southern states were re-admitted, they were matched by the admission of new states from the Caribbean.
I don't have any precise numbers. The worst fronts during the Kashmir War were Kashmir itself, the region around and including the city of Karachi, the Persian Gulf, and the Ogaden Desert in East Africa.
Regional identities are...complicated in TTL's America.
I'm glad you've enjoyed it so far!
It will during a very interesting time for conservation throughout the world (especially in the Russian Republic and the United States).
It will have similarities with the UN, though in many respects the Council of the Western Hemisphere is a closer analogue, at least in terms of structure. I will try to give a more detailed picture of how the ISO works in the next update.
Certainly. What will actually happen to the JWR eventually in the twenty-first century will be alluded to in the next update.
It has more territory than just the city of Basra.
Hyderabad also only declared war on Pakistan.
We shall see.
Territories of the US.
Southwest Africa is a contiguous part of the German Empire.
Thanks for the information. It's been edited.
Separate names with a comma.