TL-191: After the End

That is a rather original development. But, the more, the merrier - especially considering how North America and the Caribbean are one large US-wank. :)

By the end of the series, TL-191 certainly was heading in that direction.

That ought to be fun. I'm sure the the next two decades are for a lot of twists and turns, which is going to make things even more difficult to make an 'accurate' guess, I'd assume? Regardless, it'll certainly be fun to see play out.[/I]

Twists and turns would be a fair assessment.

You have a point about the economy basically coming apart at the seams; you're well met on the point that the new sultan is also a bigoted idiot. :rolleyes: But I will say that, in retrospect now, I'm not sure why the Empire of Brazil didn't bother to try to bail the Ottomans out. They're one of their chief allies, after all. Then again, perhaps they will in some capacity in the near future.

I'll try to include more information in that regards in the next update.

As for Georgia: well, I never saw that (at least at the time) as being much more than a thorn in the Sublime Porte's side. I mean, sure, it's going to be oozing constantly, but not something that would necessarily get the Georgians anything. Ah well. Still, if anything, I'd expect that if/when the Arabs revolt in the peninsula, it's going to be much, much uglier...

Again, nothing good.

Fair enough. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was whining or anything; I was honestly confused. Glad it's all been cleared up, at least. But I think it's worth noting that Austria-Hungary (which has just as many problems, I think) as the Ottomans is still doing pretty well; things looked shaky for a while, though, in the '50s I think it was? Then again, Vienna played her cards right and kept riding Berlin's coattails, to mix metaphors; that has to count for something.

The Ottomans also have the bad luck to be sandwiched between two major powers (Bharat and Russia) who have become their arch-enemies.

Ugly indeed, I'd imagine. I'd hope that it somehow ends up being a better situation than OTL, but nothing is ever truly rosy, of course. I do wonder, if the Ottomans fall for good, who the new kids on the block will be in the region. There's Russia, obviously, but we haven't heard too much about Persia (even if the latter's own future looks pretty shaky too)...

There will be more information about Persia's situation in the next update.


If you don't mind me asking, looking at the footnotes: where would you say the U.S. (and the world in general, I suppose) is culture-wise? You suggest in this latest update that we're just now starting to experience a sort of counterculture movement that sort of started after the Fourth Pacific War. We had that alt-Woodstock, Ecoism seems to be spreading as an ideology, and you talked about this new generation shedding the 'conform or be ostracized' mentality of previous generations. At least if I'm reading all of this right?

There will be a more pronounced counter-culture in the next update. The counter-culture in TTL, regardless will be going in very different directions compared to our world's.

As for those footnotes...

Thanks! They've been edited.

I suppose that's true. Not to mention, a somewhat more friendly air amongst the world powers (along with the fact there are more of them, too) certainly helps as well. It'd certainly be interesting to see how the world of TL-191 will proceed after the 2000s are completed here. "TL-191: The Final Frontier"? :p

A good title.

Speaking of what happens after this is finished: I think we discussed a long time ago about a possible "What Happened to Them?"/"Where Are They Now?" segment. Is this still in the cards?

At the earliest, not until after the actual TL is finished. However, I may do something else before that.

I guess my next question is, then: who's going to be who? Or would that technically be leading us into spoiler territory? I think the UK and France resurgent by at least the 2000s would certainly be fun to watch...

There's no exact analogue, but there are a number of similarities.

With Japan taking a big hit recently, will it be Germany who invents Nintendo? ;)

I can imagine a German Nintendo being called Glückhimmeltelespielgesellschaft and their breakthrough hit would be Donkey König.

It may be a British or French corporation that brings out TTL's version of Nintendo.

I laughed so hard when I read that.

Great as always of course.

I'm glad somebody noticed that. :) And thanks!

Apologies for the belatedness, been really busy with work and the beginnings of term. Excellent work with the update David, I really liked it! :)

Here's a map of the world in 1990. A few changes, I gave the JWR the dominant radical ideology color, and gave the Japanese yellow to Ezo. I also updated the claims in the Pacific to show the US territories, does it look accurate Dave?

Thanks for the map! It looks very accurate.

Updated alliances map.

The only things that should be altered is that Laos should be shown only in the Chennai Pact. Also, while Great Zimbabwe, Liberia, and South Africa have signed free trade agreements with the DWV, they're not associated members of those organizations.


Presidents of the United States:

Thanks!

I'm having a slight bit of trouble seeing the Falklands (more specifically what color they are), does Chile own them?

Chile controls the Falklands.

A classic platformer game (think Super Mario Bros.) where you play as a hapless, goofy little donkey of American descent, who just inherited the throne of the German Donkey Kaiserreich. But, alas, baddies have stolen the imperial throne and Donkey König must find it first and defeat the mean-spirited robbers. Powerups allow donkey to run faster and jump higher or grow bigger and stomp on his enemies with his clumping hooves.

Or, better yet: Wolfenstein 3D - One of the first 3D combine games ever. An edutainment simulation game for children that simulates the life of a family of wolves who live in the forest under the eponymous Wolf Rock mountain (a fictional Alpine peak).

Those would work as plots, though they would probably have different titles.

I love this TL, great work David.

Thanks!

Overall, do Germany and the USA still get along okay?

As good as the USA gets along with Australia, Canada, France, Israel, or the UK in our world.
 
You have a point about the economy basically coming apart at the seams; you're well met on the point that the new sultan is also a bigoted idiot. :rolleyes: But I will say that, in retrospect now, I'm not sure why the Empire of Brazil didn't bother to try to bail the Ottomans out. They're one of their chief allies, after all. Then again, perhaps they will in some capacity in the near future.

I see two reasons for Brazil's passivity, the need to recover from its own economic crisis and closer cooperation with the (geographically, politically, economically, and culturally closer) states of the western hemisphere and the Portuguese Federation being a viable alternative to the alliance with increasingly unpopular Ottomans.

As for Georgia: well, I never saw that (at least at the time) as being much more than a thorn in the Sublime Porte's side. I mean, sure, it's going to be oozing constantly, but not something that would necessarily get the Georgians anything. Ah well. Still, if anything, I'd expect that if/when the Arabs revolt in the peninsula, it's going to be much, much uglier...

You could say the same about OTL Arabs in the south of the Ottoman Empire. Without considerable foreign support, they would have failed to become independent.

Fair enough. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was whining or anything; I was honestly confused. Glad it's all been cleared up, at least. But I think it's worth noting that Austria-Hungary (which has just as many problems, I think) as the Ottomans is still doing pretty well; things looked shaky for a while, though, in the '50s I think it was? Then again, Vienna played her cards right and kept riding Berlin's coattails, to mix metaphors; that has to count for something.

Maybe, Austria-Hungary is David's next "victim". He seems to be gunning for the old Empires and destroying them one by one.
 
I thought Jorge kind of turned good at the end? He did turn in that one Freedom Party plotter (Quinn).
Yeah , Jorge turned good at the end. He just wanted to live in peace after all the shit he saw. When he came home he ended up seeing the personal costs of it after he saw one of his brother's crippled for life from a barrel shell I believe.
 
Throughout the 1980s, the Rodo Undo maintains a tight grip on the society of the Japanese Worker’s Republic, although People’s Friend Sakamoto appears in public less and less as the decade wears on (with international observers speculating declining health). Although hostile to the outside world (and to the United States in particular), the JWR remains strictly isolationist in the 1980s, excepting the constant, government-sponsored calls for a global syndicalist revolution.



Comments?

I could see "syndicalism", this TLs version of communism eventually leading to a new cold war, and some version of the Red Dawn (as in the 1984 movie) sometime in that timeline. I could see Mexico possibly going to a syndicalist government, giving syndicalist nations a base from which to invade the US, just like what the USSR does in the 1984 movie.

I have considered writing such a TL Red Dawn timeline. It would need more than just Japan and Mexico being syndicalist in order for such a scenario to be possible. Central America could possibly go that way.

With the fall of white minority regimes in South Africa and Rhodesia, in this TL, I could see those two nations going syndicalist. I could see Indonesia being syndicalist, In fact, I could see much of Southern Africa being syndicalist, much like what happened OTL. I could see the Austro-Hungarian empire and German empires breaking up and some of the resulting nations being syndicalist.
 
I could see "syndicalism", this TLs version of communism eventually leading to a new cold war, and some version of the Red Dawn (as in the 1984 movie) sometime in that timeline. I could see Mexico possibly going to a syndicalist government, giving syndicalist nations a base from which to invade the US, just like what the USSR does in the 1984 movie.

That's a real stretch. Post-1960s Japan is definitely not in a position to invade anyone, not even Korea. :) I doubt an Asian Red Scare would occur, particularly when we take the size and power of TL 191's US and its allies into account. Rhodesia and Indonesia going syndicalist is also not a given. And it would be a rather scattered and impractical alliance (see what happened to Cuba after the USSR and its buddies collapsed). So, the three or four of them would not be very threatening to the world at large.

I could see the Austro-Hungarian empire and German empires breaking up and some of the resulting nations being syndicalist.

From what we were told, they didn't exactly seem like hellholes with collapsing economies and an impoverished worker class that could serve as a fickle crowd for any would-be revolutionaries. They're probably the richest and most stable post-SGW countries in all of Europe. A syndicalist revolution would have more place in post-SGW France or Britain, but as we were already shown, it didn't occur there.
 
Only read the first post so far but I am already suitably hooked. Should I search for any specific terms to find all the timeline in this years old thread? Liberia and whatever Austria-Hungary turn into look as the they may be very interesting. I can see mention of them being on a wiki, thought I like to see timelines with the evolving retcons.
 
An economic question:

Who will be the main competitor to Boeing ITTL, will it still be Airbus?

Airbus ?!!! With the amount of butterflies, hardly ! Now, a rough analogue of Airbus, that would be plausible. But not OTL Airbus itself.

Only read the first post so far but I am already suitably hooked. Should I search for any specific terms to find all the timeline in this years old thread? Liberia and whatever Austria-Hungary turn into look as the they may be very interesting. I can see mention of them being on a wiki, thought I like to see timelines with the evolving retcons.

I don't know what you're hitting at, but if you want to see an overview of all the chapters so far (all of them are canon), you can go here.

Besides that, there is also an unrelated "filling in the gaps of the Turtledove canon" project over here.
 
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