Bored Accountant
Banned
The British Empire never committed anything remotely comparable to the Rape of Nanking nor did it force women into prostitution. The Japanese Empire clearly deserved to be destroyed.
TL-191: After the End
- Thread starter David bar Elias
- Start date
The British Empire never committed anything remotely comparable to the Rape of Nanking nor did it force women into prostitution. The Japanese Empire clearly deserved to be destroyed.
Sumeragi
Banned
Any evidence that TTL Japan did all those things? As far as I know, almost everyone is using OTL Japan as the model for TTL Japan, while I would say that TTL Japan will be more benevolent than OTL Japan. In fact, I would say that there's a certain anti-Japan bias based on how Turtledove let the Empire go easy.
In TL-191 Japan betrays three different allies(France, Russia and the UK) in three different cases of aggression. Each case is somehow a complete and utter shock to the former ally.
Twice Japan is permitted to keep spoils gained from either the United States or Germany despite being militarily inferior to either, let alone the two(which are allies).
I'm going out on a limb and assuming that suggesting Berlin or DC in the time frame covered in the series were not exactly known for their forgiving natures does not constitute anti-Japanese bias.
Twice Japan is permitted to keep spoils gained from either the United States or Germany despite being militarily inferior to either, let alone the two(which are allies).
I'm going out on a limb and assuming that suggesting Berlin or DC in the time frame covered in the series were not exactly known for their forgiving natures does not constitute anti-Japanese bias.
That's because Berlin and Philly have other issues to deal with much closer to home. Now, however, old scores may be settled.
If after peace had been established in Europe post-WWI and half the German High Seas Fleet come out the only question would be if Japan surrendered any German colonies before or after Japan no longer had a fleet.
How often in this time frame did anyone kill Germans and seize German territory without a German response of a...strenuous nature?
How often in this time frame did anyone kill Germans and seize German territory without a German response of a...strenuous nature?
Bored Accountant
Banned
I wonder if Harry Turtledove is trying to make Japan into the Draka of TL-191...
Sumeragi
Banned
I'm focusing on how some people automatically say that Japan will go on the same barbarous rampage within its territories as it did in OTL without any substantial evidence to back it up. Using that as a given reason for a war with Japan just smells of anti-Japan bias.I'm going out on a limb and assuming that suggesting Berlin or DC in the time frame covered in the series were not exactly known for their forgiving natures does not constitute anti-Japanese bias.
I wouldn't comment much on the "no revenge" question, since that is the strangest thing that Turtledove wrote in TL-191, and I can agree with any wishes for Japan being stomped due to it getting away with everything. However, human rights violation? That's just absurd.
PS: Also, why is it that I feel people are selectively reading and responding?
Other than the series presenting Japan's behavior overalll as worse than it was OTL?
According to the series Japan did that three different times against three different allies in a 30 year period.
Not to mention participating in multiple wars without a clear goal or point to entering those wars, which would be proof of behavior which was contrary to Japan's record as Japan generally understood that clear goals were essential, especially if the alternative was an extended war against a (potentially) superior foe.
According to the series Japan did that three different times against three different allies in a 30 year period.
Not to mention participating in multiple wars without a clear goal or point to entering those wars, which would be proof of behavior which was contrary to Japan's record as Japan generally understood that clear goals were essential, especially if the alternative was an extended war against a (potentially) superior foe.
Sumeragi
Banned
It still seems like we're talking at cross purposes again...
I'll restate my beef with the overall sentiment that I've seen in this thread: For some reason, people tend to think that Japan will commit the same atrocities it did during OTL. As far as I can see, there is no specific evidence or logic behind this, and until I do see something, I can only say that most people are viewing Japan with tinted lens, coloring the Empire as the same type of criminal state of OTL.
Wondering if my thoughts have finally been conveyed.....
I'll restate my beef with the overall sentiment that I've seen in this thread: For some reason, people tend to think that Japan will commit the same atrocities it did during OTL. As far as I can see, there is no specific evidence or logic behind this, and until I do see something, I can only say that most people are viewing Japan with tinted lens, coloring the Empire as the same type of criminal state of OTL.
Wondering if my thoughts have finally been conveyed.....
Giysqun Wilde
Banned
In TL-191 Japan betrays three different allies(France, Russia and the UK) in three different cases of aggression. Each case is somehow a complete and utter shock to the former ally.
Twice Japan is permitted to keep spoils gained from either the United States or Germany despite being militarily inferior to either, let alone the two(which are allies).
I'm going out on a limb and assuming that suggesting Berlin or DC in the time frame covered in the series were not exactly known for their forgiving natures does not constitute anti-Japanese bias.
Let's not forgot about after the First World War where Weimar armed China, which was also much beloved by the Americans. Who's up for having the Japanese be forced to give up everything in modern China to be headed by an American and German backed Emperor and his Champion, either a Premier, Generalissimo, or President-for-Life? As for the atrocities thing, can anyone find mentions that would suggest they were treating colonies and other Asians as they did in Formosa or with the Koreans?
Giysqun Wilde
Banned
What about the Spratleys, Luzon, Hainan, Sakhalin, the Kuriles, the Pacific islands, and others?
Wolfpaw
Banned
Why? The Japanese were pretty horrific colonial overlords. Koreans were treated as little more than hewers of wood and drawers of water on a good day.
Vexacus
Banned
But if Japan looses it's empire, then the US would be in danger of becooming an Empire in all but name. I want Japan to keep Korea, Formosa Spratleys, Luzon, Hainan, Sakhalin, the Kuriles, the Pacific islands, and others
Can you move this to PM? It's cluttering up the thread and it's getting really really annoying!
Apparently they... mistreated their Spanish prisoners when they took the Philippines in the early 20th century. According to Great War: American Front.
Wolfpaw
Banned
They were also mentioned to be the only other country besides Russia who shot its own soldiers for retreating. IIRC, that was mentioned in the scene where Patton slaps a shell-shocked soldier.