TL-191: After the End

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by David bar Elias, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. kellineil Scottish Green

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    great thread

    quick question regarding Europe, is the discovery of oil in the north sea going to boost Britain out of it's post war depression?
     
  2. marcus_aurelius A BIRD and proud

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    Haven't thought of that one (nice question, kellineil!! ;)), but with green as the trend, oil would not be as important as it was in OTL, now would it?

    Marc A

    P.S. Maybe they can go into tidal power. Some generators at the Thames Estuary should do fine... :rolleyes:
     
  3. Arkhangelsk Gay Mexamerican

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    I think I'm have way to much fun with these, but here's a list on Confederate Presidents...any ideas regarding those ???...?


    Presidents of the Confederate States of America​

    1. Jefferson Finis Davis (W-MS): February 18, 1861-March 4, 1868
    2. ??? (W-??): March 4, 1868-March 4, 1874
    3. ??? (W-??): March 4, 1874-March 4, 1880
    4. James Longstreet (W-GA): March 4, 1880-March 4, 1886
    5. ??? (W-??): March 4, 1886-March 4, 1892
    6. ??? (W-??): March 4,1892-March 4, 1898
    7. ??? (W-??): March 4, 1898-March 4, 1904
    8. ??? (W-??): March 4, 1904-March 4, 1910
    9. Thomas Woodrow Wilson (W-VA): March 4, 1910-March 4, 1916
    10. Gabriel Semmes (W-AL): March 4, 1916-March 4, 1922
    11. Wade Hampton V (W-SC): March 4, 1922-June 15, 1922[1]
    12. Charles Burton Mitchell III (W-AR): June 15: 1922-March 4, 1934
    13. Jacob Featherston (F-VA): March 4, 1934-July 7, 1944[1]
    14. Donald Partridge (F-TN): July 7, 1944-July 14, 1944[2]


    Whig
    Radical-Liberal
    Freedom


    [1] Date of death unknown, I'm just nit-picky :p
    [2] Last to hold this office

    Also note that the states I put down are just what I believe would be the states those men represented...if it seems wrong or funky, throw it out there :D
     
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  4. lord caedus Very legal and very cool

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    I think a "President Lee" was mentioned to have held office by Jake Featherston in the series.
     
  5. Plumber Manifest Destiny inspired Lebensraum

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    VP Alexander Stephens publicly broke with Davis in 1862, and had privately opposed him the whole war so he's unlikely to become president since Davis is adored in the South ITTL. I think John C. Breckinridge could become president; he was the 1860 nominee after all and was a major general. He died in 1875, so he would have to be the second president since the only ones who died in office were Hampton and Featherston.

    Lt. Gen. Jubal Early might have a shot at becoming the country's third president, he was an "unreconstructed rebel," and pretty much the founder of the "Lost Cause" theory that the Confederates were better, more dignified etc. than the Union and lost only because of sheer numbers. There might be a more likely candidate I don't know about though.

    As for the President Lee, I read somewhere that it would most likely be Fitzhugh Lee, Robert E. Lee's nephew who was into politics. He could be anywhere from 5-7 on the list. Since he was remembered as a "great president" by Featherston, he probably was fifth since that would be after Longstreet, which would be an easy time to govern the Confederacy.
     
  6. Arkhangelsk Gay Mexamerican

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    All these guys seem plausible to me, especially Early and the whole "Lost Cause theory"...and I'm also one to believe it was Fitzhugh Lee that Featherston was referring to...

    The only thing I'm really having trouble with are Presidents in between Longstreet and Wilson...besides Lee, I can't think of any other people to fill in the blanks...by the turn of the century most Confederate WoS Military Officers would already have croaked or nearly there...

    I know that the Whigs were for the most part the elite, rich plantation-owning military men...but I can't think of anyone at the turn of the century who would remotely fit the bill...you guys have any more suggestions?
     
  7. jmberry Well-Known Member

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    For 1892, the best I can come up with is James Britton Cranfill, a prohibitionist from Texas. There's also James Gaven Field, but as a Populist OTL, he would more likely have been on the Rad Lib ticket. For 1898, Kentucky produced three presidential candidates in 1896 OTL - Senator Joseph C. S. Blackburn, Congressman Henry Watterson, and John G. Carlisle, former SecTres, all Democrats (the last two were Bourbon democrats). For 1904, the only one who comes to mind is North Carolina industrialist Julian S. Carr, who was bandied about as a possible running mate for Bryan in 1900. There is, of course, Thomas Watson, but he would probably be a Rad Lib like Field.

    EDIT: Add to that list Governor James Hogg, a follower of the New South creed. He died in 1906, so he'd have to be #7 if he's used.
     
  8. GreatScottMarty Stuck with Laurens-Burr

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    you might wanna go back and look at How Few Remain and find a couple of good officers. E. Porter Alexander? or possibly Wade Hampton III? come to mind. YEs Hampton was behind a coup in the book but no reason he wouldn't run for pres.
     
  9. lord caedus Very legal and very cool

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    Except for the fact that if he DID run for president, it'd be pretty easy to de-rail his candidacy, what with the fact that he basically was committing treason in planning a coup against Longstreet.
    Also, I'm pretty sure that if he had been elected president, it'd be referenced in T-191, especially somewhere in American Empire: Blood and Iron where Jake Featherston is running against Hampton's grandson for the presidency.
     
  10. Trotsky Trotsky

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    I assume that was the date as well, if only because 7 days went by between Adolf Hitler's death and Germany's surrender, and HT occasionally likes to do things like that.

    However, I also am not entirely sure there is a sound case for that. For starters IIRC Doenitz waited a week to let as many German soldiers make it to the Allied army sectors as possible. No such need exists in the Freedom Confederacy.

    Behind a coup that never took place, to be exact. As long as Longstreet and Jackson kept mum, no one else would ever know what went on in Jackson's house that night.
     
  11. GreatScottMarty Stuck with Laurens-Burr

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    There probably would have been reference but it could have been common knowledge in the confederacy and just not discussed. As for the Coup, depending upon how planned it was and who knew, it could have been considered the will of the plantation owners coming through.

    in the last free election a Longstreet ran as the Whig candidate but the persons NAME and relation didn't come up except when Potter referenced it. I doubt Featherston would give the man credit by bringing up his relation to a president and war hero. No I think Featherston would have continued his rant against IIIs IVs and Vs.

    What about Alexander?
     
  12. jycee Well-Known Member

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    Always though Joseph Wheeler would be an option. Here he did not fight in Cuba (since it got annexed earlier). So he could have opted for a more politically oriented career rather than military after secession.
    There are a few others (maybe a fictional or two). A white Cuban (son of Confederate non-hispanic "settles") could be an option.
     
  13. GreatScottMarty Stuck with Laurens-Burr

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    I thought Cuba went Rad Lib in every election?
     
  14. Alexander Hamilton The Last Federalist

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    May I suggest John H. Reagan as a post War of Southern Independence CSA President? In OTL he was a U.S Congressman from Texas before the War and Postmaster General and Secretary of the Treasury during the War. After the War in OTL he returned to politics and served as a Confressman again and as a U.S. Senator before passing away in 1905.
     
  15. Trotsky Trotsky

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    I think they went Socialist in a few elections following the Great War.
     
  16. GreatScottMarty Stuck with Laurens-Burr

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    we are trying to fill in the blanks in between the ACW and the Great War check Archangelsk's list for details
     
  17. Wolfpaw Banned

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    I'm not sure that would happen. For some reason, I always got the feeling that politicians from the Trans-Mississippi region were used to balance out the ticket for headliner candidates from the Old or Deep South, sort of like how OTL's Democrats balanced Northerern ticket leaders with Southerners (FDR, Garner; Stevenson, Sparkman/Kefauver; JFK, Johnson; etc., etc.)
     
  18. Wolfpaw Banned

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    Howsabout this?

    Presidents of the Confederate States of America:

    1. Jefferson Finis Davis (W-MS): February 18, 1861-March 4, 1868
    2. Robert E. Lee (W-VA): March 4, 1868-March 4, 1874
    3. Milledge Luke Bonham (W-GA): March 4, 1874-March 4, 1880
    4. James Longstreet (W-GA): March 4, 1880-March 4, 1886
    5. Zebulon Baird Vance (W-NC): March 4, 1886-March 4, 1892
    6. Fitzhugh Lee (W-VA): March 4,1892-March 4, 1898
    7. Thomas G. Jones (W-AL): March 4, 1898-March 4, 1904
    8. Benjamin Tillman (W-SC): March 4, 1904-March 4, 1910
    9. Thomas Woodrow Wilson (W-VA): March 4, 1910-March 4, 1916
    10. Gabriel Semmes (W-AL): March 4, 1916-March 4, 1922
    11. Wade Hampton V (W-SC): March 4, 1922-June 15, 1922
    12. Charles Burton Mitchell III (W-AR): June 15: 1922-March 4, 1934
    13. Jacob Featherston (F-VA): March 4, 1934-July 7, 1944
    14. Donald Partridge (F-TN): July 7, 1944-July 14, 1944

    Whig
    Radical-Liberal
    Freedom

    And if Robert E. Lee doesn't want to be president after Davis, I think John C. Breckinridge may very well get the nod, as was mentioned previously.
     
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  19. Arkhangelsk Gay Mexamerican

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    Awesome list Wolfpaw! They all seem like plausable choices to me...I had been thinking of Brekinridge as POTCS #2 myself, but I'm not an expert on the subject, so it looks fine to me :cool:
     
  20. bguy Donor

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    I would recommend Breckenridge over Robert E. Lee. Lee never seemed particularily interested in politics and his health was not great. Breckenridge was a competent enough general and politician and electing him would be a good way to help really lock down Kentucky as a Confederate state.

    Tillman seems unlikely to me. He was to much of a populist for the rather aristocratic pre-Great War Whigs to nominate, and if he behaves at all like his OTL version, so much like Jake Featherston that someone would have compared the two at some point in the series. (If nothing else Featherston probably would have listed him as one of the great Whig Presidents.)

    I would recommend Champ Clark (from Kentucky in TL-191 instead of Missouri) in place of Tillman.