TL-191: After the End

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by David bar Elias, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. Georgepatton Rollerblading into the Synthwave Future

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    If they ever take a jump at Mexico, I could see it happening there. Or not. This US doesn't have the same adventursome foreign spirit, having spent so much time with a basically domestic problem.
    Just my $0.02.
     
  2. IchBinDieKaiser Casual Historian

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    Actually, I think India could be America's Vietnam, or mabey the Japanese could invade India and it could end up like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.
     
  3. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

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    OTL India is divided into several countries in TTL, all members of the Independence Movement. The United States will not be getting involved in any wars over there.
     
  4. Saladan Member

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    As Georgepatton said I don't think the US will get involved into a 191 style Vietnam. I can see the Japanese pulling their own Soviet Afghanistan though.
     
  5. Arkhangelsk Gay Mexamerican

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    First of all excellent update David, as I am a certified Ottomaniac, your mention of the Ottoman "Great Rebuilding" made my day!

    Also, it seems that the only regions in the USA still under military rule are most of the former CSA, Ontario, northern Canada and Alaska. I have a hunch that some former CS states will begin the process of integration after the war with Japan, considering the conflict would help unite the nation...
     
  6. Michael B Doomfarer

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    Depends if someone invents the domino theory and includes India in it. On OTL the domino theory was that if certain East Asian states fell the Soviets would eventually end up taking Japan. That sort of logic is not going to happen here because India is not in USA's sphere of interest.

    One power though might take an interest, the Ottoman Turks. Occupation by Japan of the north Indian plain would put them pretty close to their border. So given Japan's foreign policy of attacking its neighbours, the Ottomans might very support Indian states to resist them on the principle of do it now rather than later. Obviously it is going to start with just arms. However any state with a Muslim rajah might find it advantageous to receive Turk troops to bolster their defence.

    I doubt that a few Turk troops would deter the Japanese from invading India. The war though could end up with Japan on one side and the Ottomans and Persia (who would also be interested in keeping Japan out of India) on the other with the latter paying for their German weapons with oil money.
     
  7. IchBinDieKaiser Casual Historian

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    What about other things that should be mentioned like culture? Do the Beatles still come on to the scene, you know, that Band from Liverpool.
     
  8. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

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    They've been butterflied away.
     
  9. Fenrir_Angerboda Guitar Dad Dads you

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    So the question is, what may replace it?

    With the black Holocust, I think that really Butterflied away parts of Jazz, Soul, blues and such.
     
  10. Hawkeye Source?

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    I'm not satisfied with the current map so I decided to make my own.

    TL%2520191%2520After%2520the%2520end%25201961.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
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  11. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

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    That's the thing. There's a pretty wide gap to fill (I don't even know that much about OTL's culture to make more than guesses myself). :eek:

    Excellent map! A couple of minor quibbles: the Falklands should be shown under Chilean control, and both Northern and Southern Rhodesia should be shown as independent and united. Lesotho and Swaziland should be independent as well.

    Other than that, fantastic work! Much obliged. :)
     
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  12. Grimm Reaper Desperate But Not Serious

    Shouldn't Latin American nations on the winning side in either world war have gained? For instance, Guatamala vis a vis Belize and Yucatan, Chile to gain the southern Argentine territories...
     
  13. Hawkeye Source?

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    You got it boss.

    TL%20191%20After%20the%20end%201961.png
     
  14. Grimm Reaper Desperate But Not Serious

    Looks extremely bad for Japan if they need massive forces to just avoid a collapse in China AND in Russia and want to pick another fight with a superior military power. All too easy for the US to inflict permanent harm on the cheap, just arm/finance the Chinese or Russians or both.

    Japan suffers massive loss of face and is driven from the mainland of Asia(possibly keeping Korea) while being surrounded by enemies in the sense that to have had relations with Japan is to hate Japan.
     
  15. Tom Kalbfus Banned

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    More likely they'd remove the "British" and just leave it as Columbia. I don't think they would wish to stir up unnecessary trouble with the Canadians by naming the state after there conquerers. Just plain old Columbia would do, and if there is a country of the same name in South America, too bad. So now they have a District of Columbia, a state of Columbia, a City called Washington and a State called Washington. I think the District of Columbia would eventually be merged with the State of Maryland, whose territory DC originally came from.
     
  16. Tom Kalbfus Banned

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    Von Braun's team designed the Saturn V, but in this timeline Von Braun's team would likely reside in Germany. Werner Von Braun was a very patriotic German after all, he was a Junker Baron, and he would have kept his ancestral home in East Prussia as well, in OTU his country was defeated, and he was moved to the United States, and his home in East Prussia was seized by the Polish Communist Government. There is no reason for Von Braun to leave Germany in this timeline.

    Who do you think would get to the Moon first?
     
  17. Tom Kalbfus Banned

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    The US effectively had its Vietnam already when it was defeated in the Civil War, also there is no Communism to contain. Germanism simply doesn't spread so easily, neither does Russianism.
     
  18. Michael B Doomfarer

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    The Germans of course. There may not be the Cold War rivalry or the desire to build ICBMs to drive the race, but there are enough space enthusiasts in Germany to push the country into a rocket programme.

    On other powers, the USA will lag along with Japan who will be even further behind. France will be banned from rocket research whilst Russia will be too chaotic to build any. Britain will probably be number four in the race. German allies will sign on with Germany and US allies with the USA.
     
  19. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

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    British Columbia has already been admitted into the Union as a state under its given name in TTL.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
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  20. CT23 Well-Known Member

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    Sep 19, 2006
    I guess that makes sense since there is a New "Mexico" afterall.