TL-191: After the End
- Thread starter David bar Elias
- Start date
The Commonwealth of Zion gained independence in early 2010, at the beginning of the Ottoman Dissolution. The Commonwealth of Zion is a Jewish state, with its capital in Jerusalem.
By 2023, the Commonwealth of Zion has more or less secured its boundaries, and has absorbed the Jewish refugees from the rest of the former Ottoman Empire. The Commonwealth of Zion has also gained millions of Jewish immigrants, primarily from the Muslim world and Eastern Europe.
The Commonwealth of Zion is militarily aligned with the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the German Empire, although it will be be some decades before the nation joins the European Community. The Commonwealth of Zion also has cordial ties with Bharat, which provided important military assistance to the main Jewish militia, the Shomrim, before the nation gained political independence.
The United States extended diplomatic recognition to the Commonwealth of Zion after the nation declared its independence in 2010. The administrations of President Sergio Hernandez and President Alfred Astaire both sought cordial relations with the Commonwealth of Zion, although both US leaders viewed the nation as falling with the Austro-Hungarian and German sphere of influence.
I imagine that the Confederate military occupation of US territory during the Second Great War was brutal, especially if CS forces were seeking out suspected partisans or trying to acquire resources from civilians.
How were the Muslim subjects of Zion treated after the commonwealth gained independence?
By 2023, the Muslim, Christian, and Druze citizens of the Commonwealth of Zion have the same political rights as the Commonwealth’s Jewish citizens.
Is there a tl-191 version of Hamas (granted, the Golden Wolves fit the description of a tl-191 Hamas) and Fatah?
The Golden Wolves more like Turkic ISIS who are basically a death squad wondering around killing countless non-Muslims on the path
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I made that comparison because, well, they both really hate Jews.
So did them and ISIS but yes we both correct on that comparison
How common is Southern separatist feelings in 2023?
How difficult it was incorporate former CSA to United States?
Whatever happened to the Infamous Black Hundreds who are the Russian SS of Europe who committed serveral atrocities against the Ukrainian, Jewish people and German POWs after SGW?
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As of 2023, do the republicans run candidates everywhere on the state and national level( and by extension socialists and democrats)
I’m writing with the caveat that this is not what Harry Turtledove envisioned for Gandhi in the series, but is the case in TTL.
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The analogue in TTL to Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, of the same name, was born on a slightly different date in comparison to our world. His life was similar to that of his counterpart from our world until the end of the First Great War in 1917, when he returned to India from South Africa. Gandhi’s return to India took place slightly later than in our world.
Gandhi returned to a country in political and economic turmoil. The defeat of the British Empire in the First Great War led to the rapid growth of different nationalist and pro-independence movements in India. Gandhi, after gaining a leading role in the Indian National Congress, led numerous campaigns against the British colonial authorities through the 1920s. As in our world, Gandhi became famous for his advocacy and practice of non-violent civil disobedience against the British authorities.
There were differences to the trajectory of the Indian independence movement during the Interwar period in comparison to our world. The leaders of the Indian independence movement confronted British governments that viewed continued control of India as vital to maintaining Britain as a great power. The British acted aggressively to weaken pro-independence groups throughout the 1920s and early 1930s, before the ascent of the Conservative-Silver Shirt Coalition.
Gandhi failed to prevent internal divisions from splintering the wider Indian independence movement. By the end of the 1920s, Subhas Chandra Bose had established a separate movement for Bengali independence. The All-India Muslim League, led by Muhammad Ali Jinnah, also declined to cooperate with the Indian National Congress. By the end of the 1920s, the leadership of the Muslim League were in favor of an independent Muslim state closely aligned with the Ottoman Empire.
The ascent of the Conservative-Silver Shirt Coalition in the early 1930s led to a deterioration of conditions in India. Winston Churchill and Oswald Mosley were both staunchly opposed to the Indian independence movement. Under the Coalition regime, the British carried out a campaign of violent repression against the Indian independence movement that was analogous in brutality to the violent repression by the dictatorship in Argentina in the late 1970s and early 1980s in our world.
Mohandas Gandhi was preparing a campaign of civil disobedience against the salt tax when he was arrested in a night raid by the British authorities in 1935. He was never seen again.
It was not until after the end of the Second Great War, with the subsequent fall of the Coalition regime in Britain and the collapse of British rule in India, that it was revealed that Gandhi had died in Camp Bastion, a British prison camp that had been built in the Andaman Islands. In 1977, a Committee of Inquiry established by the governments of Bharat and Great Britain uncovered documentation that revealed that Gandhi had been murdered in 1939 on the direct orders of Oswald Mosley.
By 2023, all three of the big US political parties run candidates at all levels in different regions of the United States.
Based on these, has there been a push to have two rounds of voting made in federal elections if there's no outright majority?
There have been some advocates for this method of voting in US presidential elections, especially since the beginning of a real Three Party System in the USA in the 1980s. By 2023, this isn’t a mainstream or popular idea.
One point that could give credence to your argument would be the fact that blacks in the occupied Bahamas weren't deported and kept in basically an open air prison, alongside POWs there. However, they would've eventually been deported to the CS mainland and to the concentration camps in the event of a victory. Perhaps the Bahamas was less secure even after being captured due to strategic importance. Other than black partisans, black US soldiers serving in non-combat roles also would've been outright executed, unfortunately.
I'd also consider the CS not wanting to antagonize their British allies by murdering what London would've considered subjects, even with the Coalition government, there's no indication that Moseley or Churchill were as radically into genociding Blacks like the Freedomites were. Whether or not the former Entente Caribbean would've become Confederate territory after the war became a moot point but an Anglo-Confederate split over it could've been possible.
Poor Gandhi
What is his legacy in Bharat as of 2023? Is he still seen as one of the country's most selfless and revered individuals, or is he obscure?
I don’t know if this question has been asked before, but what’s the status of animation in TL-191? And what happened to these figures in TL-191 (all born before the OTL figure cutoff date):
-Walt Disney
-Max Fleischer
-Dave Fleischer
-Tex Avery
-Bob Clampett
-Chuck Jones
-Friz Freleng
-William Hanna
-Joseph Barbera
-Walt Disney
-Max Fleischer
-Dave Fleischer
-Tex Avery
-Bob Clampett
-Chuck Jones
-Friz Freleng
-William Hanna
-Joseph Barbera
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