TL-191: After the End

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by David bar Elias, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    As of 1961, Republicans are largely centered in the Midwest and Great Plains. I do plan to have a Republican President down the line in TTL though.
     
  2. catboy637 La Filo de Ne Dion.

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Location:
    The Crossroads of Evil and Maple St.
    I've thought of something. Jonathan Moss was a Lietenanat Colonel as of the end, right? If the Air Force is created, does he have a chance to become a General?
     
  3. lothaw Texan Nationalist

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Thought he was going into the JAG Corps. Maybe if he sticks around for another ten or so years. Even then, probably not. Knocking twenty years off your military career doesn't do it wonders. :p
     
  4. Arkhangelsk Gay Mexamerican

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Location:
    Alta California
    On the subject, what sort of memorials can anyone envision in TTL Washington, D.C.? Besides the Washington Monument on the National Mall, I think their might be a memorial for Theodore Roosevelt (on the scale of the Lincoln Memorial perhaps?) as well as one for Charles La Follette on the site of OTL FDR Memorial...

    Any thoughts?
     
  5. jycee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    A TR Memorial would definitely take the place of the Lincoln Memorial, and I could see a La Follette monument somewhere as well.
    Another important one would be a black genocide remembrance wall similar to the Vietnam one.
    And there might be one, somewhere at least a small one, for Upton Sinclair as the first Socialist President depending on how socialist the US goes.

    Anther one I thought of was something similar St. Louis Gateway Arch in Missouri but in situated in Louisville instead rather than being "a gate to the west" it would be a "welcoming gate" to the ex-confederacy back into the union. Even though they were conquered back into the union I think it is something someone would built. Similarly one can be built in Michigan as the gateway to the new northern frontier.

    Paris before being nuked would also be very different in OTL it was Napoleon III who practically completely redesigned Paris into the one we knew today. With the monarchy in power for a longer time Paris would have been redesigned even further.

    Mexico City would be just as interesting with the monarchy in power one could expect Chapultepec Castle to expand in size, making it a worthy palace in the middle of the city and not the small towery thing it is in OTL. Also Paseo de la Reforma would actually be completed creating a very Champs Elysees looking avenue. Also most of Mexico City's important monuments were built during Porfirio Diaz's rule which has been butterflied away.

    And I always imagined Richmond having an Arc d Triumph, commemorating the CSA's victory during the Second Mexican War. Many more monuments would have been built across the Confederacy commemorating its heroes. And unfortunately most of them will probably be teared down now that the US has taken over to strip the Confederacy from its identity.

    Quebec City will have some new ones. At least one celebrating its independence.

    Berlin defiantly has a big monument for Kaiser Billy II and the Great War.

    The thousands of statues of Khemal Attaturk across OTL's Turkey would not be there. Nor the Mother Russia statue in Volograd (Tsarintsin in TL191).

    ooo so many more that could be mentioned.
     
    pattontank12 and Das Amerikan like this.
  6. jycee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Just a thought that might be a possibility. You mentioned Cuba will be the only ex-confederate state to regularly vote socialist in the future. This makes sense. However ....
    Although it is obvious that the Freedom Party will be abolished across the Union what happens to the Whigs and the Radical Liberals? I cannot see ex-confederates (at least in the first generation or so) voting Democrat since after all it was Teddy Roosevelt's party. And there is no way they would vote Socialist. I can see the Whigs evolving into a Dixiecrat type of party until it eventually merges with some other party (most probably with the Republicans who've had no quarrel with the south for almost 100 years).
    The black population would be split between both the ex reds will vote Socialist, or make a stronger Communist party and some like Cincinnatus will vote Democrat to keep white southerners in check.
    That leaves the Rad-Libs (who are neither Radical nor Liberal). In the confederacy the party existed so the margin states could have a voice basically Chihuahua, Sonora, and Cuba. It is mentioned that Arango was popular enough in Texas in 1915 and eventually Louisiana went Rad-Lib with Long. Eventually they were the Freedom Party's greatest opposition. Their philosophy of taking care of the "little guy" (this of course is relative since they did nothing for blacks) and being the accommodator party (they wanted for the Confederacy to ally itself with the US) could definitely get them some votes in the new states: Sonora and Chihuahua will probably still vote Rad-Lib, and probably Cuba. I can see new Baja, maybe Houson and Louisiana voting Radical Liberal as well. And maybe the new Canadian States and some midwestern states. Like in the Confederacy they might never win the presidency but they exist so the big parties (Democrat and Socialist) know that the little guys exist and as a placebo for the little guys to believe they are being represented. (Now that I read this it might even more possible for the Republicans to Merge with the Rads than with the Whigs creating a Liberal Republican party?¿? Who knows it can go both ways)
     
    Clandango likes this.
  7. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    As of 1961, the Whigs and R-Ls are long gone (smashed by the Freedom Party in the '30s). The former CSA for the most part will vote Democratic (the "lesser of two evils" for them).
     
    Das Amerikan likes this.
  8. jycee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    They could comeback though? Couldn't they? Without the Freedom Party wouldn't old supporters of both parties could return / reform their could parties?

    But I can see the lesser of two evils case. But wouldn't the Republicans might be the lesser of all three evils by now?
     
  9. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    It's highly unlikely. Besides, the American occupation authorities will see any attempt to establish one of the old Confederate parties as a potential threat. Not to mention for most younger Southerners, such parties would be seen as useless relics, known only through the history books.

    The Republicans will likely still be thought of in the South as "The Party of Lincoln." They won't be very receptive to the Republicans at all, especially in the 1960s...
     
    Das Amerikan likes this.
  10. CT23 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    I wonder when the carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt will be comissioned? ;)
     
  11. Michael B Doomfarer

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Location:
    Cair Paravel on the shores of the Shining Sea
    How about 1986 as on OTL?

    The one that followed it would not be the Abraham Lincoln. Instead it could be the Al Smith (although that could equally well be two before it, ie Dwight D Eisenhower)

    The Midway would very lightly by the Sandwich Islands.
     
  12. Arkhangelsk Gay Mexamerican

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Location:
    Alta California
    Questions...?

    Considering Alaska was a Russian colony until the mid 20th century, would we see a much more Russified Alaska when it enters the Union (e.g. the capital remaining at New Archangel (OTL Sitka), significant Russian population, Russian city names, ect.)

    Also, on the subject of the US Congress. According to the Turtledove Wiki, the US Congress was moved to Independence Hall when Philadelphia became the de-facto capital. While the number of states in 1944 represented was lower in TTL USA (33 I believe), accomidation was not much of an issue I guess. However, as the US begins to admit more states into the Union, what course of action would the US take to accomadate the subsaquent influx of congressman and women. Would they expand on Independence Hall to allow more Reps and Senators? Would they return to the Capitol Building in DC, or would they build a bigger legislature in Philadelphia?

    The former seems the least likely to me than the other two latter considering Independence Hall holds historical value. Then again, this is a completely diffrent timeline we're talking about, so my argument holds little validity...

    any ideas...?
     
  13. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    It's more Russian than in our world (I also imagined that the Tsar used Alaska as a dumping ground for trouble-makers on top of that), but by the end of the century, a lot of U.S. settlers will be living there.

    They'll probably expand Independence Hall.
     
    Das Amerikan likes this.
  14. Faeelin Lord of Ten Thousand Years

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    I actually disagree with this. If Philadelphia has been bombed, and they are reunitin the country, then restoring the national capital makes more sense, no?
     
  15. Tom Kalbfus Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    The Original Idea behind Washington DC and where its located developed as a bridge between the North and the South, in the aftermath of a war that reunited the two halves, I think it would again serve that original purpose. Washington DC acts as a compromise between Philidelphia and Richmond, Virginia. Politicians wouldn't want to "Occupy" the South forever, to accomplish this, they need some means to give the South a stake in the country their forging, a good start would be to put the Capital back in Washington DC.

    Funny thing about Harry Turtledove, he doesn't seem to like Washington DC very much, if you go by his novels, in the WorldWar saga, he blows up Washington in the first Novel, and relocates the capital to Little Rock, Arkansas.
     
    Das Amerikan likes this.
  16. Spitfiremk1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Location:
    Brisbane, United States of Greater Britain.
    stupid Questain, but what happens to Australia and New Zealand in TL 191? (After and During)
     
  17. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Good points. I may change my plans regarding where America's capital will be...

    They're both members of the CDS, due to fears of possible Japanese expansion.
     
    Das Amerikan likes this.
  18. Michael B Doomfarer

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Location:
    Cair Paravel on the shores of the Shining Sea
    No real advantage in sending convicts to Alaska as opposed to Siberia apart from increasing the cost of transporting them. Its function could be partly that "it is ours and we intend for it to remain so." It could also provide a buffer against pre-Entente British expansionism. The Russians would remember the Nootka Incident of 1789 in which Britain gained control of some Pacific coastline from Spain. Add the Great Game of central Asia and one can see that Alaska provides a buffer against perfidious Albion crossing the Bering Strait.
     
  19. Spitfiremk1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Location:
    Brisbane, United States of Greater Britain.
    I Know, but is there anything else we should know?
     
  20. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Not really, except that a growing number of U.S. troops are now stationed in both countries, especially in Australia.
     
    Das Amerikan likes this.