TL-191: After the End

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by David bar Elias, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!

    They have a tough balancing act to follow, as of 1961, that's for sure.

    I'm going off of what I remember from one of the books, where Flora Blackford (IIRC) mentions that the Germans have killed more people in the Congo than the Belgians before them.

    And the Germans aren't that brutal in every part of their African holdings, though their hold will be weakened over time thanks in no small part to the advent of the Congo Affair.

    A possibility. The National Party has a large number of ex-Confederates to call on for support as well...

    They're not perfect...there are a number of less than scrupulous business interests in the country that do their best to circumvent the sanctions.

    TR in TL-191 seemed much more conservative and business-minded than his OTL counterpart. Though a conservationist, he's less well known for his views on that issue.

    Environmentalism isn't considered a radical idea as of 1961; it's a cause that will attract the support of a lot of young people in the coming years...mostly stemming from a desire to "do their part" to make the United States the greatest place to live in the world.

    Argentina isn't in great shape at all. They've lost territory to Chile, Paraguay, and Brazil, and remain a (very resentful) puppet state of Rio de Janeiro as of 1961.

    I decided to skip more write ups and jump back into the timeline. I hope to paint a much more detailed picture of the other nations/blocs by the end of the TL.

    Ayup, more or less (though probably with Turtledovian-style names).
     
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  2. EdM Well-Known Member

    Dave,

    I find raucous demonstrations during the '50s to be implausible. In OTL IIRC there were only peaceful protests until the 1943-45 wave of "Victory Babies" just prior to the baby boom had filled the ranks of upperclassmen of our universities (the 1964 UC Berkley protests come to mind).

    Also in OTL, the 50s were the time for initiating huge public works like the interstate system. Since Cuba has already been admitted in TTL, would there be any chance of political types in Philadelhia, Miami and Habana agitating for a Trans-Florida Straits Tunnel?

    And when we get around to the 70s or 80s, any chance that Ronald Reagan will get into Powel House as a Socialist? That would be wicked!:D
     
  3. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

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    Point taken. I'll edit that part of the timeline.

    Perhaps later, by the 1980s or so.

    Reagan's career will stay in the entertainment industry in TTL. After leave sports-broadcasting, he'll find his stride in Hollywood as a producer...
     
  4. EdM Well-Known Member

    You've got a most interesting timeline, Dave. The tunnel and Ronald Reagan pursuing a career as a producer would be most interesting. Thanks!

    I'll bet in the late 60s a Jewish producer will make a film called "The Presenters" in which two Jewish theatrical producers do a spoof musical of the CSA under Jake Featherston, called O Suzannah! The play opens with an outrageously campy number where Stephen Foster's Oh, Suzannah! is rearranged to the tune of the Hallelujah Chorus and choreographed Busby Berkley style. Much like Mel Brooks' "The Producers" in our timeline. :cool:
     
  5. David bar Elias Well-Known Member

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    A definite possibility...
     
  6. Fenrir_Angerboda Guitar Dad Dads you

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    hmm.....

    the Confederacy was having trouble
    What a sad, sad story
    Needed a new leader to restore
    Its former glory
    Where, oh, where was he?
    Where could that man be?
    We looked around and then we found
    The man for you and me
    *Freedom Party Guard enters*
    Springtime, for Featherston and the Confederacy
    Virginia is happy and gay!
    We're marching to a faster pace
    Look out, here comes the master race!
    Springtime for Featherston and the Confederacy
    Dixieland's a fine land once more!
    Springtime for Featherston and the Confederacy
     
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  7. Michael B Doomfarer

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    Not at all plausible. Why would the Brazilians want to stick their nose into Africa when they have their own jungle to develop and their own primitives to oppose. As the Ottomans they are going to make even less noise. They are German allies as well as having lots of minorities in their empire. If anyone else is oppressing the natives the most that they would do is say "Good on you, mate."
     
  8. Matt Wiser Well-Known Member

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    How many carriers does the USN have, both LANTFLT and PACFLT? Not to mention that in OTL the first SSBNs were deployed (the George Washington class) in 1960 for their initial patrols. Then there's the first guided-missile cruisers and destroyers in the mid-to late '50s (conversions of wartime crusiers first, but new-build ships later on).

    The USAF is probably oriented towards strategic bombardment (Japan being the likely enemy, but SAC probably has contingency plans for anywhere as they did OTL). ICBMs should be coming online by this time as well. ADC is no doubt geared to no specific enemy, and TAC has the same role: tactical air combat and support of ground or naval forces. There would also be some emphasis on COIN due to the continuing occupation of both Canada and the former CSA (occasional flare-ups here and there).
     
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  9. Nevermore All Killer, No Filler

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    Excellent, excellent stuff, David. I'm really wondering how Madison's career is going to proceed, considering the fact that he's got something big on his horizon. Not sure what Freedom Party thugs are left alive though...

    I'm not David, but I'm pretty sure I can answer this question for you: to some extent, both the Ottoman Empire and the Empire of Brazil are hypocrites. Both clearly have puppet states (for the O.E. - Azerbaijan, Chechnya, Sudan, and Egypt; Cyprus is an administered territory; for the E.o.B. - Paraguay and Argentina). They're going to criticize other nations for their treatment because that's what they DO, nevermind the fact some of their own could be applied to themselves. The Ottomans also seem to be drifting away from the West, in case you haven't noticed, to some extent. Germany and the U.S., while still long time allies, have alienated them by having colonial empires that far outstrip the Ottomans and the Brazilians; this has probably made the latter two groups frightened and wondering if their own independence isn't just some fluke before the bigger two groups swoop in and try to gobble them up.
     
  10. EdM Well-Known Member

    That's a good one. Of course, when the refrain repeats, it might include...

    Springtime, for Featherston and the Confederacy
    Winter for the US and Quebec
     
  11. Fenrir_Angerboda Guitar Dad Dads you

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    Why Quebec?
    Germany might make more sense, but it loses it rythem.
     
  12. Saladan Member

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  13. EdM Well-Known Member

    "O Suzannah!" and "Springtime for Featherston"

    Exactly!:cool:

    And as the number, O Suzannah! opens up the "sure-fire flop" musical (in three Acts) of the same name, Springtime for Featherston will open the Second Act.:rolleyes:

    And just like Springtime for Hitler was a smash hit in "The Producers" of OTL, O Suzannah! will be a rip-roaring success in "The Presenters" of TTL much to the chagrin of Zero Mostel and Gene Wilder's characters. :D
     
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  14. Fenrir_Angerboda Guitar Dad Dads you

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    and the displeasure of the Franz Liebkind-esque charactor.

    I can already see it....

    Wilder: He's wearing Butternut.
    Mostel: Just ignore it. Mr. (southern last name here)
    Mars: don't you DamnYankees get it? I was never part of the Freedom Party, I love all your Niggers and reds!
    Wilder: we're not here about that.
    Mars: oh. never mind I didn't say anything.
     
  15. Matt Wiser Well-Known Member

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    How much you want to bet that the Ottomans, while likely buying armor and aircraft from Germany, are making small arms under license? Then shipping some of those guns (the TL-191 version of the SG-44 assault rifle) to the anticolonials, along with machine guns, anti-armor weapons, and ample ammunition?
     
  16. Saladan Member

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    Apr 23, 2007
    I bet not since the Ottomans have been as Imperialist as the other powers and have their own multi ethnic empire.
     
  17. Fenrir_Angerboda Guitar Dad Dads you

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    I feel like trying to write a 'script' for this.....
     
  18. EdM Well-Known Member

    How about Strom Thurmond?:D Or better yet, George Corley Wallace?:D:D:D
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  19. EdM Well-Known Member

    I'll start by nailing down the lyrics to the O Suzannah! chorus...:D
     
  20. EdM Well-Known Member

    O Suzannah! Chorus

    Here goes...

    O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    O Suzannah!
    O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    O Suzannah!
    I've come from Alabama O Suzannah!
    O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    I've gone to Lou-siana, O Suzannah!
    O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    It rained all night the day I left, O Suzannah!
    O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    The sun's so hot I froze to death, O Suzannah!
    O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    Life's best lived Ante-Bellum, O Suzannah!
    O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    The Union States of the South-
    Are become-
    The Confederate States-
    Of America! Of America!
    And we'll be free for ever and ever!
    And we'll be free for ever and ever!
    And we'll be free for ever and ever!
    And we'll be free for ever and ever!
    Free from Abe-
    For ever! And ever! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    And the Union!
    For ever! And ever! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    Free from Abe-
    For ever! And ever! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    And Ab'lition!
    For ever! And ever! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    Free from Abe-
    For ever! And ever! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    And all the North!
    Free from Abe, and all the North!
    And we'll be free,
    And we'll be free,
    And we'll be free,
    And we'll be free,
    And we'll be free forever and ever!
    Free from Abe forever and ever
    And all the North O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    And we'll be free forever and ever!
    Free from Abe and all the North!
    Free from Abe and all the North!
    And we'll be free forever and ever!
    Forever and ever and ever and ever!
    (Free from Abe and all the North)
    O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah! O Suzannah!
    O Suzannah!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009