TL-191: After the End

How the hell'd they manage to pull that off? And why wasn't a Democratic-Republican ticket possible?

The outgoing Democratic administration (that of Alfred Astaire) was very unpopular due to the Great Housing Crash of 2019, which led to the worst international economic crisis since the interwar Business Collapse.

To make a long story short, Senator George Novak of Ohio (Socialist), was very much an idealist. His vision of the future of the US was one without partisan divisions. Even in the midst of the Great Housing Crash, achieving this post-partisan triumph of the Moderate Majority remained Novak’s highest priority. Novak found, through years of correspondence, that he had a kindred spirit in Governor Phillip Wakefield of New Jersey (Republican).

Thus, the first fusion ticket, and fusion presidential administration, came to pass in 2020-2021. But there were a large number of Socialists and Republicans who were, to put it mildly, not happy by the decision made their respective party leaders, especially on the Socialist side of the aisle. The Socialist Party’s still largely working class base never embraced Novak’s apparent drive to “reform” long-standing labor and healthcare policies to meet Republican and Democratic Party demands, even as the effects of the Housing Crash refused to abate.

It did not take long for the Socialist Party base to turn against the nominal leader of their party, and it also did not take long for a new potential leader to emerge, a charismatic Socialist Party Representative who had cut his teeth in the Outer Boroughs of New York City. Once a marginal figure, Representative Charles Holst suddenly found himself with larger and larger audiences across the country. Holst was also the first major US politician to fully grasp the potential power and reach of OptyCon platforms on the ComboNet. Holst’s presence in the OptyCon online ecosystem, his wrathful bromides against the political and media establishment (especially an increasingly despised President Novak), and repeated promise for a “settling of accounts” with all those responsible for the Housing Crash would all be factors (among others) in his triumph in the 2024 elections. The 2024 elections would be viewed by future US historians as among the most tragic in US history.
 
The outgoing Democratic administration (that of Alfred Astaire) was very unpopular due to the Great Housing Crash of 2019, which led to the worst international economic crisis since the interwar Business Collapse.

To make a long story short, Senator George Novak of Ohio (Socialist), was very much an idealist. His vision of the future of the US was one without partisan divisions. Even in the midst of the Great Housing Crash, achieving this post-partisan triumph of the Moderate Majority remained Novak’s highest priority. Novak found, through years of correspondence, that he had a kindred spirit in Governor Phillip Wakefield of New Jersey (Republican).

Thus, the first fusion ticket, and fusion presidential administration, came to pass in 2020-2021. But there were a large number of Socialists and Republicans who were, to put it mildly, not happy by the decision made their respective party leaders, especially on the Socialist side of the aisle. The Socialist Party’s still largely working class base never embraced Novak’s apparent drive to “reform” long-standing labor and healthcare policies to meet Republican and Democratic Party demands, even as the effects of the Housing Crash refused to abate.

It did not take long for the Socialist Party base to turn against the nominal leader of their party, and it also did not take long for a new potential leader to emerge, a charismatic Socialist Party Representative who had cut his teeth in the Outer Boroughs of New York City. Once a marginal figure, Representative Charles Holst suddenly found himself with larger and larger audiences across the country. Holst was also the first major US politician to fully grasp the potential power and reach of OptyCon platforms on the ComboNet. Holst’s presence in the OptyCon online ecosystem, his wrathful bromides against the political and media establishment (especially an increasingly despised President Novak), and repeated promise for a “settling of accounts” with all those responsible for the Housing Crash would all be factors (among others) in his triumph in the 2024 elections. The 2024 elections would be viewed by future US historians as among the most tragic in US history.
What type of tragic? Like it caused the global economy to suffer even more or like allowed horrible things to happen?
 
How are the armed forces circa 2021? Has there been a Gulf War analogue, for example? And have the services integrated women similar to OTL with female tank commanders, grunts, fighter pilots, etc.. Not to mention female astronauts since 1978...
 
How are the armed forces circa 2021? Has there been a Gulf War analogue, for example? And have the services integrated women similar to OTL with female tank commanders, grunts, fighter pilots, etc.. Not to mention female astronauts since 1978...
By 2021, women have been integrated into the different branches of the US military. Women are also participants in the domestic US space program, as well as the international space program led by the US.

By 2021, the closest analogue to our world’s first Gulf War is the US/CDS intervention in Sudan, which began in 2012 and coincided with the Ottoman Dissolution. However, the Sudanese War of TTL is not a perfect analogue to the OTL Gulf War. Even though the US was militarily the single strongest nation in the world by 2012, the US was not in the same international position as in OTL 1991, of being the only superpower.
 
How's Iran (or rather Persia as it remains ITTL) doing up to the present? You mentioned that they continued to be ruled by the Qajars. Considering via butterfly that Reza Khan never comes to power in a British-backed coup in 1921, what becomes of him? What profound/continuing political transformations does Persia go through as a result of the Constitution Revolution during the interwar and postwar periods? What was their role during GW2 as a neutral country? With the advent of oil drilling and export thereof, does Iran nationalize their oil production and does a figure like Mohammed Mossadegh emerge? What's the political landscape like in Persia post GW2? With eventual modernization and westernization of the country, is there a growing reactionary sentiment among the conservative elements in the country and does Ruhollah Khomeini still emerge as a figure of such? With Persia becoming more and more involved in foreign affairs, does going to war with the Ottomans reignite the age old conflict between Sunni and Shia Islam to how it is IOTL? How are minorities in the kingdom treated? Where does it stand out among the world's stage in global affairs? Is it a prosperous country with a great standard of living?
 
Last edited:
How are US relations with the former Entente (Britain, France, and Russia) after the Second Great War?

US relations with Tsarist Russia never improved after Russia aligned itself with the Entente in the early Twentieth Century. After the end of the SGW, the US, under the Dewey administration, seized Alaska from the Russians in Operation Husky; this was carried out both in order to end any potential threat from the Tsarist regime to the US, and to prevent the possible Japanese seizure of the region.

US-Russian relations improved dramatically in the late 1960s, following the overthrow of the Romanov Dynasty and the establishment of the Russian Republic. The Russians allied themselves with USA and CDS against the Japanese during the Fourth Pacific War.

In 2021, the US and Russia enjoy friendly diplomatic and security ties, although Russia heads its own alliance bloc (the Council of Astrakhan) outside of the US-led CDS. The US and Russia, along with China, remain allied through the Pacific Economic and Security Accord (PESA) established towards the end of the Fourth Pacific War. Russia, along with Brazil, China, and the US/CDS, cooperate through a US-led international bloc centered around space exploration and colonization.

Of course, US and Russian interests don’t always align, as of 2021. For instance, the Russians enjoy cordial relations with Bharat, a rival to the US and China. The Russians and Bharatis, in 2021, are openly cooperating against the collapsing Ottoman Empire.

-
In 2021, the US no longer regards Britain and France as enemies. However, they are not considered by Washington to be allies, either. Both Britain and France, as member states of the Austro-Hungarian/German-led European Community (EC), are viewed by US policymakers as being outside any major US national security concerns.

In 2021, the British and French are increasingly working together as a unified bloc within the EC, in the name of furthering European integration, of course. Some British and French policymakers wonder if perhaps, one day, the US and the Austro-Hungarians/Germans could be played off against each other diplomatically. However, this will likely be a project for a future generation.
 
You know, I'd love to hear more about this Ottoman Dissolution. Sounds like a combination of Syria and Yugoslavia if I'm not mistaken.

It’s a time of widespread conflict and chaos, following the collapse of Ottoman state authority in the early 2010s. Multiple groups declare independence, while several major great powers intervene in the Middle East, at one point including an Austro-Hungarian/German-led EC coalition, the Russians and the Bharatis, along with large-scale military campaigns in different regions of the Middle East by the Egyptians and the Persians.
 
How's Iran (or rather Persia as it remains ITTL) doing up to the present? You mentioned that they continued to be ruled by the Qajars. Considering via butterfly that Reza Khan never comes to power in a British-backed coup in 1921, what becomes of him? What profound/continuing political transformations does Persia go through as a result of the Constitution Revolution during the interwar and postwar periods? What was their role during GW2 as a neutral country? With the advent of oil drilling and export thereof, does Iran nationalize their oil production and does a figure like Mohammed Mossadegh emerge? What's the political landscape like in Persia post GW2? With eventual modernization and westernization of the country, is there a growing reactionary sentiment among the conservative elements in the country and does Ruhollah Khomeini still emerge as a figure of such? With Persia becoming more and more involved in foreign affairs, does going to war with the Ottomans reignite the age old conflict between Sunni and Shia Islam to how it is IOTL? How are minorities in the kingdom treated? Where does it stand out among the world's stage in global affairs? Is it a prosperous country with a great standard of living?

Persia nationalized its oil industry after the end of the SGW, following the collapse of British and Russian influence in the country. The Persian government, led by a series of reformist prime ministers, in cooperation with the military, used revenue from oil extraction in a sustained modernization effort. The Persians were initially allied with the Ottomans through the Ottoman/Brazilian-led Independence Movement. However, the Persians later allied with Bharat through the Bharati-led Chennai Pact, as Bharat forged its own security and economic bloc directed against the Ottomans and Pakistan. The Persian alliance with Bharat lasted through the Kashmir War of the late 1990s, in which the Persians fought directly against the Ottomans; by the time of the Kashmir War, the Ottomans were widely despised in Persia, as the conditions of Shi’ites living in the Ottoman Empire deteriorated. After the Kashmir War, the Persians turned the newly formed Republic of Basra into a protectorate. After the beginning of the Ottoman Dissolution in the early 2010s, the Persians began their own large scale intervention in both Mesopotamia and Arabia, in order to secure control/influence over key regions, as well as over major Shi’ite communities and holy sites. However, Persian relations with Bharat deteriorated in the mid-2010s, after the beginning of the Pakistan Dissolution, when Bharat emerged as the strongest ally of Balochi separatists fighting for independence,

In 2021, Persia is in far better shape economically than OTL Iran, having never experienced anything analogous to the 1979 revolution, the Iran-Iraq War of our world, or subsequent rounds of international economic sanctions. Conditions for minority groups vary; the Persian government in 2021, is actively involved in cracking down on suspicious activity from Kurdish, Baloch, and Sunni Arab groups. Unfortunately, there is also widespread prejudice against smaller groups such as the Bahais and Jews.

Although the Persians, as of 2021, are no longer allies of the Bharatis, the Persians do maintain cordial relations with the Austro-Hungarians and Germans.

The Shi’ite ulema in Persia never became actively involved in national politics, although the ulema does enjoy a significant degree of economic power through landowning, religious endowments, and close ties in the major cities with various commercial factions.

In TTL, Reza Khan was killed during the Persian government’s suppression of a major rebellion in Gilan province.

Ruhollah Khomeini never became involved in political activity in TTL, and remained a religious scholar.
 
Considering the role Germany and the US had with bringing Britain and France low and considering that they were never totally occupied and de-Silver Shrited or de-Action Francaiseified its hard to believe that there wont always be a significant section of the populaion who despises them and wants to get back at them. The same could be said to a lesser extent for the former Confederates and Canadians but at least most of them know they lost. You cant completlety say that about the British and the French...
 
Considering the role Germany and the US had with bringing Britain and France low and considering that they were never totally occupied and de-Silver Shrited or de-Action Francaiseified its hard to believe that there wont always be a significant section of the populaion who despises them and wants to get back at them. The same could be said to a lesser extent for the former Confederates and Canadians but at least most of them know they lost. You cant completlety say that about the British and the French...

Britain got nuked at least 3 or 4 times at the end of the novels while Paris ate a nuke as well. I'd say that'd be enough to stop them from trying for round 3.
 
I
Britain got nuked at least 3 or 4 times at the end of the novels while Paris ate a nuke as well. I'd say that'd be enough to stop them from trying for round 3.
It would for some but what about those who remain convinced that Jews, Communists and other undesirables in Germany,Russia and the US were behind it all ? Also Britian is a superbomb power and France could easily become one with their help. I think its possible the world doent hear from them again like this but I also think its far from certain....
 
Last edited:
On the topic of the Ottoman Dissolution, what are relations between the Arabs of various religious backgrounds as well as with the Kurds and other minorities? Were there any ideas of reviving a unified Arab state or is it mainly idealized along sectarian and tribal/noble lines form the beginning? What new nations emerged? Also, how have the Armenians been doing within the Ottoman Empire even after the Genocide and decades more of continued oppression? Are there any Greeks and Assyrians left aswell? What's their population and how did they survive? When did Jews start facing persecution to that of other minorities? During the Dissolution itself, which international sides support whom?
 
On the topic of the Ottoman Dissolution, what are relations between the Arabs of various religious backgrounds as well as with the Kurds and other minorities? Were there any ideas of reviving a unified Arab state or is it mainly idealized along sectarian and tribal/noble lines form the beginning? What new nations emerged? Also, how have the Armenians been doing within the Ottoman Empire even after the Genocide and decades more of continued oppression? Are there any Greeks and Assyrians left aswell? What's their population and how did they survive? When did Jews start facing persecution to that of other minorities? During the Dissolution itself, which international sides support whom?
I remember at least two such groups. Ottoman Kurdistan (The Mosul Action Front, roughly analogous to OTLs Peshmerga) and Jews in Palestine fighting for independence from a crazy man-child of a Turkish sultan. In that TTL, there's a dramatic siege of Jerusalem in the late 2000s, presumably into the next decade, too. Also, I think Christians in OTL Lebanon are fighting the Ottomans as well. There may be a few others, but that's what I remember.
 
What is the legacy of Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck as well as his life after the FGW?

I can easily see him as being a well respected FGW hero in Germany and the other FGW Central Powers countries. However in Tanganyika (OTL Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, and a small part of Mozambique) as well as other former German African colonies I can see Vorbeck as being a more controversial figure mainly for his role in the Herero & Namaqua Genocide (assuming it still occurs in TTL).

Speaking of Tanganyika, what is the living condition there for the average citizen, the most spoken language there, the main religion there, and the main source of revenue of their economy by 2021?
 
Last edited:
Top