Timur or Babur as Hindu

I'm sure this might be considered ASB, but what consequences could there have been had either Timur himself or Babur much later had converted or had been raised as Hindus?
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Hinduism was ethnically crystalized in around circa 9th to 10th century. So it would be difficult for Babur or Timur to be actual Hindus. They could have been on a religion between Buddhism and Hinduism but. Scythians,Kushans,Indo-Greeks,Sogdian,etc did embrace something like this. In this ATL, Afghanistan,Pakistan and parts of Central Asia might be converted to a form of this Hybrid religion and once empire is strengthened,might make inroads to India too. The hard ethnic structure of Hinduism would be weakened. Afghans,Central Asians,Tajiks,etc might be more connected with Indians becoming a Greater India. A good timeline I'd say!
 
Hinduism was ethnically crystalized in around circa 9th to 10th century. So it would be difficult for Babur or Timur to be actual Hindus. They could have been on a religion between Buddhism and Hinduism but. Scythians,Kushans,Indo-Greeks,Sogdian,etc did embrace something like this. In this ATL, Afghanistan,Pakistan and parts of Central Asia might be converted to a form of this Hybrid religion and once empire is strengthened,might make inroads to India too. The hard ethnic structure of Hinduism would be weakened. Afghans,Central Asians,Tajiks,etc might be more connected with Indians becoming a Greater India. A good timeline I'd say!

Oh that's quite interesting, so something like the religion Akbar tried to form himself some time later?
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Oh that's quite interesting, so something like the religion Akbar tried to form himself some time later?
Religions succeed more when beginning in an ethnic environment. People or tribes in Central Asia,Afg,etc were then more or less ethnically pure(even now). It is a perfect breeding ground for a new religion and eventually become a ruling class eventually spreading themselves to other places. Akbar was more or less Urbanized and Din I Lahi was a combination he created himself not as religion exactly.
 
If Timur converted to Hinduism in a fit of madness outside the walls of Delhi his army would disintegrate instantly (or go over to the Lodis) and scatter back across the Hindu Kush.

For Babur to have been born/raised a Hindu you need a PoD so specific and so massive that it would be pointless to discuss its ramifications, since it would basically be "whatever you feel like, dude." If, instead, Babur converted after the Mughal conquest in 1526, he'd be deposed/murdered. The nascent Mughal empire was already struggling with the lack of stabilisation in the wake of his conquests, and without the support of the Afghan and native Muslim elite (who would not follow him into conversion), Babur could not maintain control over his new domains. Most likely, another Afghan/Turkish warlord would rise up and fill the power vacuum left by the demise of the Delhi Sultanate, maybe an earlier version of Shah Suri.
 
If Timur converted to Hinduism in a fit of madness outside the walls of Delhi his army would disintegrate instantly (or go over to the Lodis) and scatter back across the Hindu Kush.

For Babur to have been born/raised a Hindu you need a PoD so specific and so massive that it would be pointless to discuss its ramifications, since it would basically be "whatever you feel like, dude." If, instead, Babur converted after the Mughal conquest in 1526, he'd be deposed/murdered. The nascent Mughal empire was already struggling with the lack of stabilisation in the wake of his conquests, and without the support of the Afghan and native Muslim elite (who would not follow him into conversion), Babur could not maintain control over his new domains. Most likely, another Afghan/Turkish warlord would rise up and fill the power vacuum left by the demise of the Delhi Sultanate, maybe an earlier version of Shah Suri.

Interesting, so essentially the chances of them ever converting are slim. Which does make me wonder, what is needed for there to be a Hindu Timur from say birth aha.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Interesting, so essentially the chances of them ever converting are slim. Which does make me wonder, what is needed for there to be a Hindu Timur from say birth aha.
Either a POD where Islam doesn't exist or a timeline in which it spreads into Sub Saharan Africa or/and South India instead of expanding into the former Byzantine and Persian empires. For that to happen,you need the two empires stronger first.
 
Interesting, so essentially the chances of them ever converting are slim. Which does make me wonder, what is needed for there to be a Hindu Timur from say birth aha.

Slim is an overstatement. It's ASB.

Timur was born a son of a Mongol noble in Turkic and Islamic dominated Transoxiana: this context is what made Timur Timur. Consequently, his claim to governance and conquest was legitimised by both Islam and his Turko-Mongol ancestry and if you take either of that away by introducing Hinduism into the equation you end up with butterflies the size of Donald Trump's ego.
 
Slim is an overstatement. It's ASB.

Timur was born a son of a Mongol noble in Turkic and Islamic dominated Transoxiana: this context is what made Timur Timur. Consequently, his claim to governance and conquest was legitimised by both Islam and his Turko-Mongol ancestry and if you take either of that away by introducing Hinduism into the equation you end up with butterflies the size of Donald Trump's ego.

This is very true.
 
Now was he actually Muslim or not? If yes: When did he become so? Apostasy would be kinda problem, but then, if you were a Muslim - would you argue with someone like Timur?
 
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