Ok, I admit I'm torn.
I'm not sure which timeline to choose, so through a selection process involving the earlier vote, my own preference, and peoples written second choices, I have come down to these two timelines.
This is actually some period of indecision for me so whichever one wins, I'll write (and then I might do the second one maybe, but I have a different project on the backburner and all this is too far in the future to matter).
So here are the two choices listed earlier:
Speak Loud, Look Big A response to the War of 1812 cliché in which the British always win by bringing in the Duke of Wellington or some other Peninsular general along with tens of thousands of British regulars to North America.
The POD of this timeline would be the survival of Sir Isaac Brock, the reluctant Canadian Hero who penned the quote above to describe his plans for war with the Americans. The change would be a different lead up to the battle of Queenston Heights.
In OTL there was a temporary armistice before the battle that Brock wasn't happy with and was also the result of some succesful American bluffing. When the armistice ended, Brock misjudged the American landing point and thus had to race to the heights and was killed by an American sharp shooter in the battle. His death deprived Britain of its perhaps most decisive commander in the war. For the rest of the war, Britain would be held back by commanders who were hesitant to push forward. Brock never had any of this and was a firm believer in the best defense for Canada would be a good offense.
Now for the POD, the local British officer who signed the armistice calls the bluff he fell for in OTL, and the American forces at the other side fo the lake are deprived of the much needed supplies and reinforcements they required. When Brock arrives, he takes the advantage and eventualy drives the Americans from the lakes.
This far more aggressive behaviour on Britain’s part puts America quickly on the defense and leads to far more British victories in the north as Brock, after securing the Great Lakes, succesfully supports Tecumseh in the bid to control the Old North West.
The War is far shorter, and it butterflies away the Hartford Convention. This coupled with Brocks belief in creating an Indian state out of the Old North West leads to a far more different peace process when the area is shorn off in the British victory.
The Federalists are never discredited, and their fortunes improve from the descent they were already experiencing OTL. This leads to no era of good feelings and far more contentious and viscious infighting leading to an earlier civil war focused far more on states rights.
Finally, the Indian state, increasingly unstable, collapses a few decades later when native-white settler (who the British were unable/unwilling to prevent) violence becomes uncontrollable.
These Anglo-American tensions (along with the civil war) lead to America taking on a far more aggresive foreign policy with an earlier and far larger increase in the USN. This colonial power America eventually becomes balanced by an earlier inception of Canada covering a far larger industrial area and population. Two superpowers will eventualy arise on the continent.
and
Short out of Miracles A timeline in which there is no miracle for the house of Brandenburg during the seven years war. Empress Elizabeth survives a year or two longer leading to the partition of Prussia and only a semi-victory for Britain.
The actual POD actualy lies with Charles Edward Stuart, known to history as “Bonnie Prince Charlie” not showing up drunk for a war meeting planning the amphibious invasion of Great Britain. Taking on this chance to try and regain his family’s throne, Charles Edward continues to sober up for his planned invasion of Great Britain, but these plans are dashed as in OTL by British victories at sea. Despite not invading, his turn around gives the French a better opinion of him which plays into this timeline later.
Back to Prussia, it gets totally defeated and Frederick II is killed either in battle or by suicide. It loses Silesia back to Austria along with Mark and Cleves. Sweden gains East Friesland along with West Pomerania. Saxony gains Magdeburg, the county of Hohnstein, and other southerly bits. Meanwhile Russia exchanges East Prussia with Poland for the area it got in the First Partition of Poland.
Britain meanwhile suffers setbacks once Prussia falls. To keep Hannover from being occupied, and to keep the French making any gains in Germany, Britain agrees to a negotiated peace.
Britain keeps its gains in India, but loses Minorca and has to hand back Guadeloupe and Martinique. She also gains the Ohio area for the American colonies but not Canada, leaving a French threat remaining to the American colonists.
As tensions rise between America and Britain, the constant French threat forces them to come to terms. This is tested when France and Britain enter into another European war.
Meanwhile Britain, with Prussia effectively destroyed as a power (they still exist as Brandenburg) tries to reverse the Diplomatic revolution. Austria is not disfavourable since without Prussia, France once again becomes their greatest threat in Germany. They also have some plans regarding the Austrian Netherlands and Bavaria which France may not like.
Meanwhile, Peter III assumes the throne later in his life, and with this his relationship with his wife has achieved the point where he actively suspects her in plots against him.
When Catherine makes her coup, it fails and Catherine is banished to a convent. This distrust of the many things associated with Catherine manifests itself in Poland. In OTL, Sigimund II Augustus of Poland was installed on the Polish throne in a military coup supported heavily by the Russians. Because he was one of Catherine's ex-lovers (one of the reasons Catherine installed him on the Polish throne), Peter III never supports him.
This is where Bonnie Prince Charlie again enters the picture. The higher French opinion of him, and the lack of a British crown to seize (hes beginning to become disillusioned again) causes him to offer himself up to the throne. The French support him, and because of that (along with Austrian support), his lineage (he is descended from Jan III Sobieski, one of Poland's greater and more beloved Kings, through his mother), and an alliance with the more progressive nobles of Poland, the Stuarts gain the throne of Poland. That of course in simple terms means that this timeline has a Jacobite Poland.
Thanks alot, comments appreciated.
I'm not sure which timeline to choose, so through a selection process involving the earlier vote, my own preference, and peoples written second choices, I have come down to these two timelines.
This is actually some period of indecision for me so whichever one wins, I'll write (and then I might do the second one maybe, but I have a different project on the backburner and all this is too far in the future to matter).
So here are the two choices listed earlier:
Speak Loud, Look Big A response to the War of 1812 cliché in which the British always win by bringing in the Duke of Wellington or some other Peninsular general along with tens of thousands of British regulars to North America.
The POD of this timeline would be the survival of Sir Isaac Brock, the reluctant Canadian Hero who penned the quote above to describe his plans for war with the Americans. The change would be a different lead up to the battle of Queenston Heights.
In OTL there was a temporary armistice before the battle that Brock wasn't happy with and was also the result of some succesful American bluffing. When the armistice ended, Brock misjudged the American landing point and thus had to race to the heights and was killed by an American sharp shooter in the battle. His death deprived Britain of its perhaps most decisive commander in the war. For the rest of the war, Britain would be held back by commanders who were hesitant to push forward. Brock never had any of this and was a firm believer in the best defense for Canada would be a good offense.
Now for the POD, the local British officer who signed the armistice calls the bluff he fell for in OTL, and the American forces at the other side fo the lake are deprived of the much needed supplies and reinforcements they required. When Brock arrives, he takes the advantage and eventualy drives the Americans from the lakes.
This far more aggressive behaviour on Britain’s part puts America quickly on the defense and leads to far more British victories in the north as Brock, after securing the Great Lakes, succesfully supports Tecumseh in the bid to control the Old North West.
The War is far shorter, and it butterflies away the Hartford Convention. This coupled with Brocks belief in creating an Indian state out of the Old North West leads to a far more different peace process when the area is shorn off in the British victory.
The Federalists are never discredited, and their fortunes improve from the descent they were already experiencing OTL. This leads to no era of good feelings and far more contentious and viscious infighting leading to an earlier civil war focused far more on states rights.
Finally, the Indian state, increasingly unstable, collapses a few decades later when native-white settler (who the British were unable/unwilling to prevent) violence becomes uncontrollable.
These Anglo-American tensions (along with the civil war) lead to America taking on a far more aggresive foreign policy with an earlier and far larger increase in the USN. This colonial power America eventually becomes balanced by an earlier inception of Canada covering a far larger industrial area and population. Two superpowers will eventualy arise on the continent.
and
Short out of Miracles A timeline in which there is no miracle for the house of Brandenburg during the seven years war. Empress Elizabeth survives a year or two longer leading to the partition of Prussia and only a semi-victory for Britain.
The actual POD actualy lies with Charles Edward Stuart, known to history as “Bonnie Prince Charlie” not showing up drunk for a war meeting planning the amphibious invasion of Great Britain. Taking on this chance to try and regain his family’s throne, Charles Edward continues to sober up for his planned invasion of Great Britain, but these plans are dashed as in OTL by British victories at sea. Despite not invading, his turn around gives the French a better opinion of him which plays into this timeline later.
Back to Prussia, it gets totally defeated and Frederick II is killed either in battle or by suicide. It loses Silesia back to Austria along with Mark and Cleves. Sweden gains East Friesland along with West Pomerania. Saxony gains Magdeburg, the county of Hohnstein, and other southerly bits. Meanwhile Russia exchanges East Prussia with Poland for the area it got in the First Partition of Poland.
Britain meanwhile suffers setbacks once Prussia falls. To keep Hannover from being occupied, and to keep the French making any gains in Germany, Britain agrees to a negotiated peace.
Britain keeps its gains in India, but loses Minorca and has to hand back Guadeloupe and Martinique. She also gains the Ohio area for the American colonies but not Canada, leaving a French threat remaining to the American colonists.
As tensions rise between America and Britain, the constant French threat forces them to come to terms. This is tested when France and Britain enter into another European war.
Meanwhile Britain, with Prussia effectively destroyed as a power (they still exist as Brandenburg) tries to reverse the Diplomatic revolution. Austria is not disfavourable since without Prussia, France once again becomes their greatest threat in Germany. They also have some plans regarding the Austrian Netherlands and Bavaria which France may not like.
Meanwhile, Peter III assumes the throne later in his life, and with this his relationship with his wife has achieved the point where he actively suspects her in plots against him.
When Catherine makes her coup, it fails and Catherine is banished to a convent. This distrust of the many things associated with Catherine manifests itself in Poland. In OTL, Sigimund II Augustus of Poland was installed on the Polish throne in a military coup supported heavily by the Russians. Because he was one of Catherine's ex-lovers (one of the reasons Catherine installed him on the Polish throne), Peter III never supports him.
This is where Bonnie Prince Charlie again enters the picture. The higher French opinion of him, and the lack of a British crown to seize (hes beginning to become disillusioned again) causes him to offer himself up to the throne. The French support him, and because of that (along with Austrian support), his lineage (he is descended from Jan III Sobieski, one of Poland's greater and more beloved Kings, through his mother), and an alliance with the more progressive nobles of Poland, the Stuarts gain the throne of Poland. That of course in simple terms means that this timeline has a Jacobite Poland.
Thanks alot, comments appreciated.
Last edited: