Timeline 191 - Random Events Post Second Great War

[CASSICTOR2]

Nuclear weapons weren't used during the war between Germany and the RSFSR.

Why didn't Germany use nukes on the Russians?
When they invaded Eastern Europe for twice and that ended with St Petersburg has Superbomb into Oblivion.
Also why did the Russians even with trosky want a war that early into the RSFSR crested?
I see many of the people just want to rebuild the Nation than going to war again for the third time especially with the aftermath of the Russian revolution so kicks in.

In this case the war with Japan is different. In this war the US doesn't have to fight an island hopping war to reach the Japanese home islands, as the US (actually the North American Treaty Organization) already have an ally in South Japan. Most of the casualties occur when an American aircraft carrier is destroyed by a superbomb equipped torpedo, and also during partially botched landings at Toyama Bay. However, once they established a beachhead, the Americans were experts at mechanized infantry tactics, and they were able to reach Nagano within a few weeks.

Yeah they do have no Japan as an ally but North Japan would have suffered the US troops with mass surprises of death and destruction of their ranks.

Similar with North Korea will do to us troops by making them suffer into the March of Pyongyang. Also they didn't have the UN to pack them up with numerous allies and equipment to supply (South Japan and Canada is really the only one that they have)

That isn't to say that they didn't pay a heavy price, but remember, in this universe the US military is willing to play extremely dirty with enemies on the battle field, and also with civilians attempting to resist its authority.

This one I agree with the US playing really dirty with civilians like the execution and mass reprisal in Utah, Canada and the South

 

[Cire]

Why didn't Germany use nukes on the Russians?

One of the things that was learned following the use of superbombs towards the end of the Second Great War is that the effects of such weapons don't stay within their intended blast zones. For example, following the bombing of Petrograd, sheep and cattle grazing in Sweden and Denmark became ill, after eating grass contaminated by radioactive particles, and had to be destroyed. The fallout from Petrograd caused a panic which in turn led to a brief but frightening meat and dairy shortage across much of Scandinavia.

Following the Petrograd fallout scares (similar instances happened in other areas of Europe) superbombs were no longer viewed by many military planners as the magic bullet to bring an enemy to their knees. That doesn't mean that such weapons weren't built and stockpiled, it is just that strategic planners were somewhat hesitant to use them, especially if their ultimate goal was to conquer an enemies territory, and to turn it into a profitable colony.

Similar with North Korea will do to us troops by making them suffer into the March of Pyongyang. Also they didn't have the UN to pack them up with numerous allies and equipment to supply (South Japan and Canada is really the only one that they have)

But in our timeline, the US briefly occupied parts of North Korea, and nearly captured Pyongyang. At any rate, my story is just fiction.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

Would Russia have the same problem with alcoholism in RSFSR? since the Soviet Union actually banned alcohol before Stalin reinstated it

 

[CASSICTOR2]

One of the things that was learned following the use of superbombs towards the end of the Second Great War is that the effects of such weapons don't stay within their intended blast zones. For example, following the bombing of Petrograd, sheep and cattle grazing in Sweden and Denmark became ill, after eating grass contaminated by radioactive particles, and had to be destroyed. The fallout from Petrograd caused a panic which in turn led to a brief but frightening meat and dairy shortage across much of Scandinavia.

Following the Petrograd fallout scares (similar instances happened in other areas of Europe) superbombs were no longer viewed by many military planners as the magic bullet to bring an enemy to their knees. That doesn't mean that such weapons weren't built and stockpiled, it is just that strategic planners were somewhat hesitant to use them, especially if their ultimate goal was to conquer an enemies territory, and to turn it into a profitable colony.

But still I don't know why Trotsky thought of having a war with Germany? as remember they just got out from a Civil war that destroyed russia

Hell even the fascist in Spain wouldn't joined in WWII because they know it will be unpopular and they're vastly under equipment with that

(I know Trotsky want to spread communism by expanding it but also is smart enough to not pick a fight with Germany especially after years of fighting in 1947 Revolution)

 

[Cire]

Would Russia have the same problem with alcoholism in RSFSR? since the Soviet Union actually banned alcohol before Stalin reinstated it

Most likely yes, and on top of that, there might even be something similar to Victory Gin as described in 1984.

 

[Cire]

I don't know why Trotsky thought of having a war with Germany?

They want Ukraine back in Moscow's orbit, they want revenge for the bombing of Petrograd, they believe that the other nations defeated by Germany in the Second Great War might join them, and they view the exportation of revolution as their primary duty. Also, to add to that, more than a few German officers switched sides in the earlier stages of the conflict. Also, whatever sort of rump-state government which was forced onto Russia after the end of the Second Great War probably wasn't very popular with the people, and the conflict to unseat the post war Moscow government was probably something like the French Revolution on steroids. At this stage of the game, Trotsky probably functioned in much the same way that Jake Featherston did in the defeated Confederacy.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

Most likely yes, and on top of that, there might even be something similar to Victory Gin as described in 1984.

Well here's the thing before Stalin was in power, the Bolshevik were actually a prohibitionist Cire!

Leninism teach that vodka industry were a means to divide and control the workers by the bourgeoisie and Trosky is a close friend of Lenin before Stalin, so maybe Trotsky being such a radical bans alcoholism in Russia

 

[Cire]

Well here's the thing before Stalin was in power, the Bolshevik were actually a prohibitionist Cire!

Leninism teach that vodka industry were a means to divide and control the workers by the bourgeoisie and Trosky is a close friend of Lenin before Stalin, so maybe Trotsky being such a radical bans alcoholism in Russia

Or maybe not. In the end, the vodka industry survived, and Lenin did not.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

Would you make other maps in yours tl191 verse like with your map on North America?

 

[Cire]

Would you make other maps in yours tl191 verse like with your map on North America?

I'm not really such a good map maker, and it took me several hours to make that map of North America back in 2018, so I'm probably not going to be making more maps anytime soon. However, if you're wondering what the rest of the world would look like........feel free to feel in the blanks.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

I have a question that I know is very morbid but here it goes.

Were there any other genocides after SGW? There were genocides after the Holocaust for example Bengals, Kurdish, Rwandan and Guatemala Genocide.

Were there similar tragedies happening after SGW?

 

[Cire]

Were there any other genocides after SGW? There were genocides after the Holocaust for example Bengals, Kurdish, Rwandan and Guatemala Genocide.

The closest thing to Freedom Party style death camps were the Maoist style Reform Through Labor Camps spread throughout Malaysia. Similar work camps existed in Mainland China, but those camps are generally considered by historians as being primarily work/reeducation camps, while the camps spread throughout Malaysia and Southeast Asia are regarded as being closer to true concentration death camps. The primary reason for the difference in brutality is often attributed to the fact that guards staffing such facilities were often recruited from one local Malaysian minority group, while most of the detainees locked up inside the camps were made up of their historical tribal enemies. This isn't to say that barbaric cruelties didn't exist in the camps located within Mainland China, but the difference in those Chinese camps is that the cruelty wasn't metered out based upon ethnicity or tribal identity. The Maoist camps located outside of China were primarily slave camps where detainees were given very little food, as they were slowly worked to death. There are disagreements amongst scholars regarding regarding the number of deaths occurring in the camps outside of Mainland China, but most agree that the estimate lies somewhere between 6 and 9 million dead. - The number of people killed in the labor camps will remain a point of dispute between the People's Republic of China and leaders in the Islamic world until well after the turn of the century.

Another tragedy often attributed to being a genocide, but is most likely not, is the famine which occurred in Argentina, and other South American countries following the end of the Second Great War. By the start of the Twentieth Century, the British had already begun their work of transforming Argentina into a bread basket, a bread basket in which most, but not all of the harvested crops were exported to Great Britain. However, the cereal crops planted by British agribusinesses were heavily dependent upon chemical fertilizers, and when the supply of those fertilizers stopped following at the end of the Second Great War, approximately twenty million hectares of crops withered in the ground. To make matters worse, the lingering effects of an earlier drought helped to contribute to the formation of a dust-bowl across some of South America's most fertile farm land. Between 1945 and 1947, approximately 1.5 to 3 million people die of starvation on the South American continent. During the heyday of Marxist-Trotskyism, during the 1960s and 1970s, the government of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic spread the rumor that the Argentinian Famine had been orchestrated by American businessman for the purpose of taking over Latin America. Although completely spurious the story spread throughout South America, and assisted the RSFSR in setting up client states on the continent.

There is also the failed civil war which occurred in India during the late 1940s in which both Hindu and Muslim refugees were slaughtered by their opposite numbers. However, in this case most of the killings took place in villages, on highways, and on the battle field, and not in actual death-camps. Furthermore, since the killings were carried out mutually by both sides, most killings did not occur in state sanctioned death-camps, therefore, most historians regard the roughly three million nonmilitary deaths occurring during the failed Indian Civil War to be ordinary civilian deaths occurring during a time of war, and not an actual targeted genocide. Incidentally, one of the contributing factors resulting in India's victory in the war, was the fact the US sold large amounts of surplus Confederate weapons and ammunition to the Indian government. These Confederate weapons were largely compatible with the British military hardware already in the country, and aided the Indian government in crushing the Muslim rebellion.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

Would the CSA be independent again? Because I know it will be very hard for the US to get the CSA independent again but costly dozen of budget to maintain the South for very long as well as competing with the Soviets.

And I'm not saying the CSA will be completely independent, they might be like Belarus who have controlled by Washington and side with American interests.

CSA, South Japan Canada and the US will defender the Communist threat from the East will be very interesting to read Cire

 

[Cire]

Would the CSA be independent again? Because I know it will be very hard for the US to get the CSA independent again but costly dozen of budget to maintain the South for very long as well as competing with the Soviets.

And I'm not saying the CSA will be completely independent, they might be like Belarus who have controlled by Washington and side with American interests.

CSA, South Japan Canada and the US will defender the Communist threat from the East will be very interesting to read Cire

Not in this particular timeline. In this particular time the US government utilizes mafia style tactics, Hollywood propaganda, along with a carrot and a stick approach to eventually sway the people of the South away from the ideals of the Confederacy. The Republic of Texas is the first former CS state to be readmitted back into the US. Following that, propaganda films are shown to the people of the defeated Confederacy explaining to them that they can also enjoy in the post-war economic boom, if they are simply willing to take a simple oath of loyalty to the US. If not, the US government is more than happy to let them starve in a draconian police state rule by corrupt US officials as food, gasoline, electricity, and information are severely restricted. By 1957 or so the last former Confederate state would have been readmitted, and by that time, school children would start referring to the old Confederacy as the New South. By the mid-1960s or so there would be an entire generation of young adults living in the New South who had no personal memory of the Freedom Party or Jake Featherston, and to them, their primary goal would be to show off how enlightened and how liberal they are.

I think that the closest thing to a Confederacy in this time line would an Association of Southern Governors, or something like that. However, as I mentioned earlier, during the negotiations to bring Texas back into the Union, Texas President Wright Patman stipulated that Texas must be allowed to keep it's own standing army. After much back and forth, US President Dewey finally concealed that Texas would be allowed to keep its own small self-defense force, consisting of roughly 80,000 enlisted men and officers. The Texas Self Defense Force is under the direct command of the Governor of Texas and it is a separate entity from the Texas National Guard, and also the US Army. The agreement spelling out Texas's return to the United States didn't clearly spell out if the President of the United States has the authority to mobilize the Texas Self Defense Force, but none the less, when troops were sent to into Alaska in order to help support the fledgling nation of Canada, the first troops to put their boots on the ground were members of the Texas Self Defense Force, flown in on US gunships. Also, the members of the Texas Self Defense Force wear a uniform which is nearly identical to that of the US Army, except for the butternut stripe which runs up the side of their trousers. Additionally, more than a few of the units within the Texas Self Defense force have battle flags which incorporate elements of the older style Confederate battle flag, as it existed before the Freedom Party. This is pretty much the limit of Confederate influence in modern American politics and military.

But could a separate timeline exist in which a rump state republic of the Confederacy is allowed to exist? Perhaps just a handful of states east of the Mississippi? But the US would only allow something like this to exist, if it thought it could completely control it, and it was to the benefit of the US government.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

Is South Japan apologize of their Massive Atrocities across Asia during the Imperialist Japan?

 

[Cire]

Is South Japan apologize of their Massive Atrocities across Asia during the Imperialist Japan?

Yes, the government of South Japan issued several official apologizes throughout the 1960s, 70s, and 80s, but many critics claimed that such apologies were shallow and halfhearted. This didn't seem to matter so much in the United States, but occasionally an Australian politician would make an unpleasant remark about Australian soldiers held as POWs during the war, but such controversies were usually short-lived, and the usual public relations firms would be trotted out to remind everyone that the Japanese, at least the South Japanese were now on the side of the good-guys, and that the South Japanese supported democracy, even if they really didn't practice it so much in their own country.

However, it wasn't until January of 1987 when People's Democratic Republic of Japan (Northern Japan) finally issued an official apology for the atrocities carried out by Imperial Japanese forces during the Greater East Asian War of the 1920s, 30, and 40s. A few weeks later the Politburo of Northern Japan voted to dissolve itself and to merge with the Republic of Japan. Previously, the communists ruling Northern Japan considered the war-crimes committed by Imperial Japanese forces to be a sin of the Imperialist, so therefore they were not to blame for the events of the Greater East Asian War, and they considered the South Japanese (where the emperor still lived, as a sort of religious figure head) to be directly culpable for all of the bloodshed. When the Government of Northern Japan issued its official apology for the "events of the past" it shocked the press, as many experts suddenly realized that the world was entering a new political phase.

On a side note, following the collapse of North Japan, Sean Enos, the son of George Enos Jr., is arrested by the now unified Japanese government and turned over to the United States. Approximately twenty-three years earlier, Sean Enos had been serving aboard the nuclear powered submarine, USS Sealion, when he is seduced by a female North Japanese agent named Fusako Shigenobu who is posing as a refugee in Honolulu. Enos provides Fusako with detailed information about the submarine he is serving upon. This information will enable the North Japanese to capture the Sealion when it is caught attempting to install listening devices upon undersea communication cables. Eventually the crew is returned, but Enos defects to the People's Democratic Republic of Japan. Enos and Fusako are given their own private residence outside Nagano, in exchange, Enos appears in several North Japanese propaganda films, and he is treated like a celebrity by the party. Upon his return to the United States Enos will spend approximately seven years in Fort Leavenworth before eventually be pardoned by US President Ross Perot in 1995. Enos will enter the witness protection program, and will spend the rest of his years working as a grocery store clerk in New Mexico

 

[CASSICTOR2]

Yes, the government of South Japan issued several official apologizes throughout the 1960s, 70s, and 80s, but many critics claimed that such apologies were shallow and halfhearted. This didn't seem to matter so much in the United States, but occasionally an Australian politician would make an unpleasant remark about Australian soldiers held as POWs during the war, but such controversies were usually short-lived, and the usual public relations firms would be trotted out to remind everyone that the Japanese, at least the South Japanese were now on the side of the good-guys, and that the South Japanese supported democracy, even if they really didn't practice it so much in their own country.

However, it wasn't until January of 1987 when People's Democratic Republic of Japan (Northern Japan) finally issued an official apology for the atrocities carried out by Imperial Japanese forces during the Greater East Asian War of the 1920s, 30, and 40s. A few weeks later the Politburo of Northern Japan voted to dissolve itself and to merge with the Republic of Japan. Previously, the communists ruling Northern Japan considered the war-crimes committed by Imperial Japanese forces to be a sin of the Imperialist, so therefore they were not to blame for the events of the Greater East Asian War, and they considered the South Japanese (where the emperor still lived, as a sort of religious figure head) to be directly culpable for all of the bloodshed. When the Government of Northern Japan issued its official apology for the "events of the past" it shocked the press, as many experts suddenly realized that the world was entering a new political phase.

All right all good and all but why the two Japan's got unified while the Soviets out here doing nothing about it?

Remember in our history, German unification had to be improved with the Soviets, French, British and the Americans to finally had that happened. Would the Soviet side down as their puppet state is unified under a capitalist regime?

 

[CASSICTOR2]

What happened to the Monarchies of Europe after SGW?

 

[Cire]

All right all good and all but why the two Japan's got unified while the Soviets out here doing nothing about it?

Remember in our history, German unification had to be improved with the Soviets, French, British and the Americans to finally had that happened. Would the Soviet side down as their puppet state is unified under a capitalist regime?

Monday, March 4, 1985
Leninist seize control of the Kremlin in Moscow and declare the Democratic Republic of Soviet Socialist States. Mikhail Gorbachev is declared President of the DRSS and General Secretary of the Communist Party. Moscow develops a friendlier attitude towards the US, while China continues to remains overtly hostile.

Friday, February 13, 1987
Free elections are held in the People's Democratic Republic of Japan. The people of North Japan vote to dissolve their nation and to reunify with the Republic of (South) Japan.

After the Leninist gained control and declared the the Democratic Republic of Soviet Socialist States, thereby abolishing the former Trotskyist government of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, the amount of military and economic aid flowing into North Japan began to dry up. Furthermore, with a constant stream of educated elite fleeing the country for the more affluent Republic of South Japan, and saddled with a backwards and out of date infrastructure, the rulers of North Japan came to the conclusion that changes must be made if their country were to survive.

At first the decision was made to send diplomats to the People's Republic of China in the hopes of securing a military and economic alliance. But the Chinese government is still wary of Japanese intentions, and the North Japanese delegation is unable to obtain the across the board support they had hoped for. Following this failure, the North Japanese then return to the bargaining table with the new Leninist regime now ruling in Moscow. Also, the Deputy Minister of Soviet Foreign Affairs explains to the North Japanese delegation that it is not in the interest of the Russian people for Moscow to rebuild Northern Japan. Furthermore, it is added that if the North Japanese want to modernize their country, then the most effective way for them to do so would be to open up negations with the government of the Republic of South Japan.

Thus, a series of agreements and compromises were set in place which eventually led to the Republic of Japan peacefully absorbing its northern neighbor, the People's Democratic Republic of Japan. The merger was carried out by career lawyers and politicians from both sides, and there were no massive street demonstrations such as those which took place in Dresden, East Germany, in our timeline. North Japanese police and military maintained an iron grip on the population until the stroke of midnight February 13, 1987, and even then, it was often time several weeks before such police and military units were given new orders, or were told to stand down altogether.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

Monday, March 4, 1985
Leninist seize control of the Kremlin in Moscow and declare the Democratic Republic of Soviet Socialist States. Mikhail Gorbachev is declared President of the DRSS and General Secretary of the Communist Party. Moscow develops a friendlier attitude towards the US, while China continues to remains overtly hostile.

Friday, February 13, 1987
Free elections are held in the People's Democratic Republic of Japan. The people of North Japan vote to dissolve their nation and to reunify with the Republic of (South) Japan.

After the Leninist gained control and declared the the Democratic Republic of Soviet Socialist States, thereby abolishing the former Trotskyist government of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, the amount of military and economic aid flowing into North Japan began to dry up. Furthermore, with a constant stream of educated elite fleeing the country for the more affluent Republic of South Japan, and saddled with a backwards and out of date infrastructure, the rulers of North Japan came to the conclusion that changes must be made if their country were to survive.

At first the decision was made to send diplomats to the People's Republic of China in the hopes of securing a military and economic alliance. But the Chinese government is still wary of Japanese intentions, and the North Japanese delegation is unable to obtain the across the board support they had hoped for. Following this failure, the North Japanese then return to the bargaining table with the new Leninist regime now ruling in Moscow. Also, the Deputy Minister of Soviet Foreign Affairs explains to the North Japanese delegation that it is not in the interest of the Russian people for Moscow to rebuild Northern Japan. Furthermore, it is added that if the North Japanese want to modernize their country, then the most effective way for them to do so would be to open up negations with the government of the Republic of South Japan.

Thus, a series of agreements and compromises were set in place which eventually led to the Republic of Japan peacefully absorbing its northern neighbor, the People's Democratic Republic of Japan. The merger was carried out by career lawyers and politicians from both sides, and there were no massive street demonstrations such as those which took place in Dresden, East Germany, in our timeline. North Japanese police and military maintained an iron grip on the population until the stroke of midnight February 13, 1987, and even then, it was often time several weeks before such police and military units were given new orders, or were told to stand down altogether.

So were their celebrations after Japanese people after they finally got unified like Germany in 1989?

Also were there ever a Tokyo wall similar to the Berlin Wall in the Cold war?