How Is This TL So far on a Scale of 1-5

  • 1 - Alien Space Bats

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • 2 - Generally Implausible

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3 - Moderately Plausible

    Votes: 14 36.8%
  • 4- Generally Plausible

    Votes: 18 47.4%
  • 5- Very Plausible

    Votes: 5 13.2%

  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .
at least one state will eventually secede from the USA and make it harder for it to access Florida.
Kentucky or Ohio? That might hinder access to the Mississippi River
Also, seeing as the US will be more dominated by New England and the norther states, I predict a Daniel Webster Presidency.
 
Kentucky or Ohio? That might hinder access to the Mississippi River
Also, seeing as the US will be more dominated by New England and the norther states, I predict a Daniel Webster Presidency.
Why didn't I think of that? Thanks. Webster is intriguing.
 
@PGSBHurricane, may I ask you questions on your TL?
  • How would the formation of both the United States and Southern American Confederation might affect the OTL U.S. territorial expansion? Is it possible that France might split up Louisiana during the event of Louisiana Purchase that southern part, all the way to New Orleans may or not go to the Southern American Confederation while the northern part my go to United States?
  • Would the United Kingdom and the United States without the original states like Georgia, South and North Carolina, and Tennessee might go on a different direction rather than OTL if it is possible?
 
@PGSBHurricane, may I ask you questions on your TL?
  • How would the formation of both the United States and Southern American Confederation might affect the OTL U.S. territorial expansion? Is it possible that France might split up Louisiana during the event of Louisiana Purchase that southern part, all the way to New Orleans may or not go to the Southern American Confederation while the northern part my go to United States?
  • Would the United Kingdom and the United States without the original states like Georgia, South and North Carolina, and Tennessee might go on a different direction rather than OTL if it is possible?
Territorial expansion will exist although it may or may not be more hostile than OTL and British-USA relations will be different now that the SoCon (both that and SAC are internchangible here) acts as a rival.
 
Why exactly would the US even care at all if the Southern Confederacy acquires Florida?
Unless they become open enemies over something like a Southern-supported secession of Virginia.
Regarding Louisiana, the whole point of the Purchase IOTL was acquiring New Orleans and its surroundings as an outlet for Western US products shipped down the Mississippi. The US ITTL have no land anywhere in the vicinity, so it is unlikely they'd ask the French whether the place is on sale to begin with. No one seemed to particularly care about the Prairies up north (which either France or Spain may very plausibly be happy to sell, precisely because most of everyone outside the native living there considered the area near-worthless, and no one else was ever going to ask the Native their view on the subject).
They might still go directly for purchasing the whole thing all the way to New Orleans, but it is less likely that anyone thinks about such a purchase. And the Southerners are very likely to object.
 
Perhaps Northern Louisiana goes to the US and the Southern Louisiana could remain a colony. Keeping Louisiana out of the SAC would be much better for the slaves and poor whites.
 
Perhaps Northern Louisiana goes to the US and the Southern Louisiana could remain a colony. Keeping Louisiana out of the SAC would be much better for the slaves and poor whites.
The problem is that the US deciding groups aren't likely to want to spend a single penny for having just the North without its sea access in the South, at least not for quite a while. At some point they'd get interested probably, but the place might be not on sale anymore (if it ever was ITTL).
 
Why exactly would the US even care at all if the Southern Confederacy acquires Florida?
Unless they become open enemies over something like a Southern-supported secession of Virginia.
Regarding Louisiana, the whole point of the Purchase IOTL was acquiring New Orleans and its surroundings as an outlet for Western US products shipped down the Mississippi. The US ITTL have no land anywhere in the vicinity, so it is unlikely they'd ask the French whether the place is on sale to begin with. No one seemed to particularly care about the Prairies up north (which either France or Spain may very plausibly be happy to sell, precisely because most of everyone outside the native living there considered the area near-worthless, and no one else was ever going to ask the Native their view on the subject).
They might still go directly for purchasing the whole thing all the way to New Orleans, but it is less likely that anyone thinks about such a purchase. And the Southerners are very likely to object.
I would think then, that the USA still has the same incentives to acquire Louisiana and I don't really see what the Southerners are going to do if they try. If they don't purchase it though, then what? Does it go to Britain? Do the North and South make a grab for it when France is busy in Europe so that it doesn't go to the British?

I agree that the Northerners shouldn't care about what happens in Florida. By the time the Confederacy can muster either the cash (and agree on how to fund it) or the force to get it, it's going to be settled with a significant trickle of slave Carolinian and Georgian slave owners. Not the kind of people the USA is eager to admit nor the kind that want to be admitted to the USA. The map indicates that the Spanish must have signed some treaty with Georgia resolving the Northern boundary of West Florida. With the confederation consisting of just three, relatively rural states, Spain would probably decide it could afford to maintain its hard stance regarding the rest of Florida, with East Florida being the more desired colony. Especially since the Confederation doesn't bump up against Texas, thus removing that boundary dispute from the equation (unlike the Adams Onis treaty).
 
This is just a warning in advance, the next chapter is going to be somewhat significantly longer than the others so it might not be ready until next week.
 
Just a quick question. Wouldn't the Carolina's and Georgia be unlikely to walk out of the convention unless Virginia did so? Virginia's political pull alone should keep all three states firmly in the Union so I would imagine that for the convention to breakdown Virginia would have to walk too.

Besides that I look forward to more updates
 
Just a quick question. Wouldn't the Carolina's and Georgia be unlikely to walk out of the convention unless Virginia did so? Virginia's political pull alone should keep all three states firmly in the Union so I would imagine that for the convention to breakdown Virginia would have to walk too.

Besides that I look forward to more updates
Georgia and the Carolinas were particularly vocal about wanting to walk out of the Convention OTL if slavery was abolished or slaves wouldn't be represented. Not so much Virginia. But in a matter of chapters that might not matter.
 
Chapter Four: Washington’s First Term and The Start of an Era
Chapter Four: Washington’s First Term and The Start of an Era

The first presidential election of the United States ran from December 15, 1788 to January 10, 1789, the only US presidential election on record to do so. George Washington was unanimously elected as president while John Adams became his vice president with 34 electoral votes. The Constitutional Convention previously created the offices of President and Vice President as separate from Congress. As for how the election happened, it was by the Electoral College, based on state representation. Until the Twelfth Amendment in 1804, each elector was to cast two votes each for a different candidate. The electors were chosen either by the state legislature or popular vote depending on the state. As Rhode Island hadn’t yet ratified the Constitution the time and New York hadn't fully set up its legislature, those two states could not participate. George Washington was an obvious choice for president, given his enormous popularity and status as the Revolutionary Commander of the Continental Army. His acclaim was so universal he came out of retirement. While Washington had Federalist tendencies, he officially remained neutral. Adams, on the other hand, fully embraced the Federalist platform.

In 1788, Congress scheduled the first presidential inauguration for Wednesday, March 4, 1789 (Subsequent presidential inaugurations took place on March 4th until 1937 when the date was changed January 20). This was delayed because of freezing and snowy weather plus the ballots were not completely counted until April 6. After this, Washington was then notified of his victory and traveled to New York City, the temporary capital of the United States, from Mount Vernon, Virginia. Starting in 1790, the capital would be indefinitely moved to Philadelphia, with the Capitol Building being located in Congress Hall and the President's House on Market Street. On April 30, 1789, Washington officially took the oath as the first United States president of the United States, administered by New York Chancellor Robert R. Livingston on the second floor balcony of Federal Hall. The streets were crowded with spectators for the historical events. For his inaugural speech in the Senate Chamber, Washington noted the power of the nation calling for him to serve as president. He also recalled the shared responsibility of Congress and the drive to preserve "the sacred fire of liberty.” He also urged for the passage of a Bill of Rights - ten amendments that would guarantee rights such as the freedoms of speech, assembly, due process, and worship. This was created in September 1789 and ratified in December 1791, influencing Vermont’s decision to ratify the Constitution in March 1791 and join the Union.

A cabinet was not mandated by either the Constitution or any other established law. Nevertheless, George Washington established the cabinet as a group of his most trusted advisers. The term cabinet was coined by James Madison, who described the meetings as “the president’s cabinet.” On September 11, 1789, George Washington sent his first cabinet nomination, Alexander Hamilton, to the Senate, who was approved within minutes to become the Secretary of the Treasury.. Upon signing the Judiciary Act of 1789, he also created the office of Attorney General, which went to Edmund Randolph. By the time Washington held his first full cabinet meeting on November 26, 1791, Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson and Secretary of War Henry Knox had jumped on board. Regarding the question of the creation of a national bank, there was tension particularly visible between Jefferson and Hamilton.

Between 1789 and 1797, George Washington appointed 38 federal judges, 28 to US District Courts and 10 to the Supreme Court. This began two days after Congress passed the Judiciary Act of 1789, which formally established the federal judiciary. Of the ten justice appointed to the Supreme Court, three would serve as Chief Justice before the end of Washington’s tenure. The first Chief Justice was John Jay. The five Associate Justices serving with him were James Wilson, William Cushing, John Blair, John Rutledge and James Iredell. The six men sat at the national capital (first New York City, then Philadelphia) twice a year, once every February and once every August.

Not long after the start of his first term, in June 1789, Washington declared a just Indian policy as a top priority. Secretary of War Knox then explained that the Continental Congress needlessly provoked Native Americans following the Revolution by insisting on American possession of all territory east of the Mississippi River due to alleged pro-British sentiment. The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 chartered a US government for its namesake territory. The members of the Western Lakes Confederacy (the Chippewa, Fox, Iroquois, Miami, Ottawa, Sauk, and Shawnee tribes) developed an armed resistance in response. This increased Washington’s urgency to manage Native affairs. By his own wishes, the Senate accepted treaties as the basis for conducting Indian relations rather than warfare. Congress proceeded with a treaty with seven northern tribes. This agreement lacked any substantial means for protecting the land. Because of the ineffective treaty constant settler intrusion onto their land indicating lack of government control on its citizens, the northern tribes believed it to be necessary to deploy armed forces. In further retaliation, Washington dispatched armies to confront the northern Indian forces to protect it citizens in 1790 and 1791. Neither attempt was successful. It was not until Congress authorized a regular army of 4,000 men led by General "Mad Anthony" Wayne in the Summer and Autumn of 1794 that the Indian Confederation was defeated.

By 1791, the United States was suffering from high debt incurred during the American Revolution. Alexander Hamilton, a Federalist, supported using an excise tax to ease the burden. Despite Anti-Federalist resistance, particularly from politicians in Virginia and Kentucky (admitted to the Union in June 1792), it was passed by Congress. When news reached Western Pennsylvania, people refused to pay the tax as they viewed it as another attempt by the eastern elite to dictate the affairs of citizens on the frontier. Farmers in particular saw it as an abuse of power to target people who relied on grain to make a living, which was often distilled into a liquor known as whiskey as it was easier to ship and preserve. This tax made these farmers more likely to fall into financial hardship. Initially, Washington tried to resolve this dispute peacefully in 1792. By 1794, resistance grew increasingly violent, as 400 rebels near Pittsburgh set the home of John Neville, the regional tax collection supervisor, on fire that July. Feeling he had no other choice, Washington organized a militia of 10,000 men and led them to Pennsylvania. Not everyone was on board, though, as Virginians and Kentuckians in particular aligned themselves with the interests of the Pennsylvania farmers, much to Washington’s dismay and Thomas Jefferson’s delight, and refused to partake in such military services. Nevertheless, this ended the rebellion as the rebels had dispersed by the time the militia reached Pittsburgh. When all was said and done, 150 men were apprehended and tried them for treason. Two men, John Mitchell and Philip Weigel, were found guilty of treason, but both were later pardoned.

800px-Gilbert_Stuart_Williamstown_Portrait_of_George_Washington.jpg


Note: It turns out I was able to get this done before the weekend after all so no need to worry. Also, I'm putting my Confederate Victory timeline on hiatus for now since it's a fairly common alternate history scenario and I'm not really as passionate about it as I once was. It doesn't help that it's not that well-written.
 
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It isn't the worst thing I've seen on this site, so no reason to beat yourself up about it. Heck, I've written worse (coincidentally, also a Confederate victory timeline)
Still nothing to be substantially proud of. Besides, I'm not really a person who's really into war history so neither the Great War nor Civil War were fun to write.
 
Chapter Five: The Reign of John Rutledge
Chapter Five: The Reign of John Rutledge

It was Wednesday November 4, 1789. The first election for the presidency of the Southern (American) Confederation was upon everyone in the South. Being a Confederation with the states dominating the national government, one would expect the president would represent the artisans, shopkeepers, frontier settlers, and poor back-country farmers and with a focus on the people of the interior regions who favored republicanism and the rule by the common man. This block was known as the Democrats in this region. In fairness, the Scottish-born former governor of Georgia Edward Telfair was widely talked about as the front runner early on in the discussion. In reality, even most Democrats knew to varying degrees that in order to get their goals in the future, they had to engage in building national institutions in the short term. Hence, many conceded that someone more federalist (or Nationalists in the South, who emphasized finance, manufacturing, commerce, and a strong central government) would be suited as the first president of the United States. Charles Pinckney of South Carolina was initially favored as the Nationalist nominee but turned down the opportunity, requesting that he instead be nominated as Vice President. At his request, John Rutledge (also of South Carolina) was the Nationalist Nominee, facing Democratic candidate Edward Telfair.

The popular vote on November 4 decided the electors who then met on December 2, 1789 (Confederate law mandated that electors meet on the first Wednesday in December). The Georgians voted for Telfair while South Carolinians favored Rutledge. The electoral college came down to North Carolina, all of its electors except for two voting for Rutledge. With that, the first presidential election of the SoCon was decided and the inauguration was set to take place on February 22, 1790 at the former governor’s mansion. It was on a Saturday and the weather was nice so thousands of people showed up to watch this historical event (although not nearly as many as in New York City with George Washington). The famous last words of the inauguration speech first president of the South were “We shall build a nation together to create a better tomorrow” in order to rally potential support. Like his Northern counterpart, John Rutledge had a cabinet of three advisers: John Milton as Secretary of State (and War), James Armstrong as Secretary of the Treasury, and Edward Telfair as Attorney General.

One centerpiece of Rutledge's was his Indian Policy. Four southern tribes proved to be trouble for his administration: the Cherokees, Chickasaws, Choctaws, and Creeks. While he initially sought assurance and trade from the Cherokees, Chickasaws, and Choctaws, the more formidable Creeks caused considerable apprehension because of their disagreement with of Georgia's interpretation of three treaties negotiated in the 1780s because of significant sections of Creek land to Georgia that the tribe didn’t recognize. Leading the Creeks was mixed-race Alexander McGillivray, who spoke fluent English and negotiated shrewish. He and Twenty-eight Creek chiefs accepted Rutledge's invitation to travel to Charleston in the summer of 1790 to negotiate a new treaty. The result was the Treaty of South Carolina which attempted restoring some of the Creeks’ ceded land under SoCon government protection in exchange for assimilation into society by aiming to attach tribes to permanent land settlements. The Creeks were given “useful domestic animals and implements of husbandry” and were encouraged to become herdsmen and farmers instead of hunter-gatherers. Needless to say this was the start of what would eventually become the reservation system. Despite the efforts of John Rutledge and his Vice President Charles Pinckney, they could not stop the stream of Southern settlers on protected land.

Before 1795, the western and southern borders of the Southern American Confederation was a source of tension between Spain and the SAC. The SoCon territory extended west to the Mississippi River, but parts of it were disputed with Spain. Also,Spanish officials were staunchly opposed to SAC settlement and trade in the area and kept the Mississippi River (including the port city of New Orleans) closed from Southern shipping. The Spanish government maintained several forts there and used Indian resistance towards encroachment of their lands to its leverage. Southern citizens found Spanish policies restrictive and wanted negotiations. In 1789, neither Spanish colonial officials nor politicians in Madrid were interested in granting any concessions. Five years later, Spanish forces experienced defeat after defeat in the Caribbean and Europe at French hands. Spanish prime minister, Manuel de Godoy, sought to restore peace with France. Spain feared an alliance between the SAC and its traditional enemy Great Britain and wanted to avoid losing territory to the British. Sensing a need for rapprochement, Godoy sent a request to the SAC Government to negotiate a treaty. Thomas Pinckney, the Southern minister to Great Britain, arrived in Spain in June 1795 where negotiations swiftly proceeded. Spain’s political and military positions were weakened from war while population growth in the Confederation made the Spanish more amenable to policy changes. Godoy offered the 31st parallel as the new border for the Southern Confederation and the state of Georgia (in present day Alabama and Mississippi) plus the right of free navigation of the Mississippi River, which was supported enthusiastically. Initially requesting a commitment to an alliance with Spain, Pinckney rejected the offer and threatened to leave unless the Spanish dropped duties on Southern trade passing through New Orleans. Godoy conceded, voided Spanish guarantees of military support towards Native Americans, and the two signed the Treaty of San Lorenzo on October 27, 1795.

Arguably the most important economic development in the Confederation was that of the cotton gin. Cotton was in ideal crop in that it could be easily grown and its fibers could be stored for long periods of time on end. On the flip side, its seeds were difficult to separate from the fibers. The vast majority of cotton farmers in the South grew the labor-intensive short-staple cotton, which had to be cleaned by hand one at a time. On average, only one pound of cotton had its seeds removed per day. In Mulberry Grove, Georgia, Catherine Greene explained the problem with short-staple cotton to her plantation manager, Phineas Miller. Soon thereafter, in 1793, he hired Eli Whitney of Connecticut (USA) to build a machine that could remove the seeds from cotton fibers, soon called the cotton gin. Smaller gins could be cranked by hand (removing the seeds of 50 pounds of cotton per day), while larger ones were powered by horse and later steam engine. Whitney received a patent for the gin in 1794, but the design for the cotton gin was pirated by plantation owners, many of which constructed designs that were improvements over the original. For the South, it meant that cotton could be produced plentifully and cheaply for domestic use and for export, and by the mid-19th century, cotton was the SoCon’s leading export. This inadvertently strengthened slavery to its all-time peak and made it much more widespread as it caused planters’ profits to increase, prompting them to grow larger crops and hire more people cheaply via slaves.

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I wonder what the fate of the 5 civilized tribes ITTL will be. It seems likely that the tensions with the Creeks will boil over into war and the Seminoles will probably revolt if the SAC takes Florida. Hopefully there isn't the Trail of Tears as in OTL.
 
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