Thy Do Succeed Thy Father

So I'm taking a break from my 1848 timeline for the moment (which for those interested I have much material on) and have decided to do a Tudor based timeline. Hopefully it works, and I don't fall flat on my face.

POD
So the premise of this timeline is that Arthur, Prince of Wales doesn't die in 1502 from the "mysterious illness"[1] , and like his wife Catherine recovers fairly quickly. Arthur and Catherine develop a relatively happy marriage, and soon find themselves the parents of a large family of four children [2], securing not only the succession, but the Tudor dynasty as well. Henry VII surviving children were married off fairly quickly as well, with Margaret married soon after Arthur to King James IV of Scotland, and Henry, Duke of York proposed to various royal houses. [3]

The future for the upstart Welsh dynasty looked bright indeed.

[1] Some 500 years after his death, his body was exhumed and still no cause of death could be fully established (sweating sickness, tuberculosis and a genetic condition have all been hypothesised.
[2] I based this on Catherine's pregnancies who survived birth, but didn't survive for many days afterwards, giving her four children out of six.
[3] I was thinking, Portugal, Denmark or one of the many German houses, but am yet undecided so feedback would be appreciated.
 
The Early Years: Arthur and Catherine's Children

The Prince of Wales, having recovered from his illness, soon returned to his duties governing the Welsh borders, which had been peaceful following centuries of intermittent warfare. In this he found himself aided ably by his wife, Catherine, who proved to be an able administrator [1], and his childhood friend Gruffydd ap Rhys [2], who served as his main lieutenant in the region.

Arthur, soon became recognised as a calm and temperate figure, with one contemporary describing him as "a amiable and gentle lad."[3] Catherine fell pregnant in 1503, compounding the happy news, that Elizabeth of York had given birth to a healthy daughter Katherine. [4]

Sadly the same was not true for Arthur or Catherine, who gave birth to a stillborn daughter on 31 January 1504, devastating the young couple. Henry VII, recalled them from Wales that same year with the two establishing home in Richmond Palace, allowing them to reconnect with Arthur's siblings. Catherine's mood was further lifted by the visit of her father Ferdinand and sister Maria of Portugal. The move to Richmond proved to be a good one for the couple, as Catherine soon fell pregnant again, and gave birth to a healthy son, Henry, Duke of Cornwall, on New Years Day, 1505.

Catherine would fall pregnant a further four times, after Henry's birth, and with the exception of one stillborn son, gave birth to three more children, Ferdinand, Duke of Somerset (December 4, 1507) and Elizabeth (18 February, 1509 and Isabella Tudor (10 November, 1510), thus securing the succession for the foreseeable future.

[1] As she was IOTL.
[2]Gruffyd ap Rhys was a close friend of Arthur IOTL and will prove to be key ally throughout his life.
[3] As described by Steven Gunn and Linda Monckton in their book on the prince.
[4] The child that killed Elizabeth of York, which may well have brought about Henry VII early death. Conveniently butterflied away.
 
In OTL Ireland remained catholic for as much as any reason because the conquering English where protestant.
 
Minor nitpick: the title should be "Thou Dost Succeed Thy Father". Other than that, sounds interesting!

Ya. What he said.

<pet peeve 51>Seriously, people, if you don't know Elizabethan English/Latin/whatever, please, PLEASE don't attempt to fake it badly. It just makes one look ignorant (true) and stupid (presumably not true). </pet peeve>
 
this is what happens when you fail to pay attention to Shakespeare during English. regardless of whether this makes me look ignorant I'm fairly confident I can make it an interesting timeline.

After all, what's the point?
 
Further intermarriages

Having secured an Anglo-Spanish alliance through the marriage of Arthur and Catherine, Henry VII turned his attention to Portugal, not only securing the old alliance, but firmly establishing friendly powers in Iberia to counteract any French influence. In 1505, his two year old daughter Katherine found herself betrothed to John, Prince of Portugal (João, Infante de Portugal). The king also found himself needing to find a suitable bride for the Duke of York, who was now fourteen, and found it in John I of Denmark's youngest daughter, Elizabeth who was six years his senior. England, now found itself with three new marriage alliances that cemented its economic and military position on the continent. The same year as Katherine and John of Portugal were betrothed, the Duke of York and Elizabeth of Denmark were married in proxy at Greenwich Palace, in the presence of the Prince of Wales and Henry VII and Queen Elizabeth, as well as Prince Jacob of Denmark, Norway and Sweden who acted as Elizabeth's proxy.

Thus not only was the royal line secured, but the Tudor family found itself elevated to the front rank European royalty.
 
Learning to become King

Arthur, having both survived illness and begun a family was now finding himself trusted with increasing duties, and in 1506 he was appointed to governing the Scottish borders, as part of his rank of Lord Warden of the Marches, establishing his base at Durham, with the support of the Bishop William Senhouse. Here, as he did in Wales, he established a strong central administration, and a good working relationship with the local lords on both sides of the border, aided in his Scottish relations through his brother-in-law James IV.

Arthur soon found himself with four able lieutenants; Gruffyd ap Rhys, Gerald Fitzgerald, Anthony Willoughby and Maurice St John. Arthur allowed increased border trade between the towns of the Marches, and reduced his father high taxation. [1] Arthur had meanwhile left Catherine behind in London, and while the two wrote frequently there was a growing distance between the pair. [2] Following a year in governance in the north, Arthur and his retinue, excluding Willoughby [3] returned to London for the wedding of Henry, Duke of York and Elizabeth of Denmark who were married in a grand ceremony at the Palace of Westminster, attended by various European dignitaries and prominent nobles.

Following the wedding Arthur and Catherine remained in London, and following deliberation between Henry and Arthur, moved to Madrid to serve as the English ambassador. [4] Here Arthur formed a strong friendship with his wife's half-brother Alonso de Aragón, Archbishop of Zaragoza and Viceroy of Aragon. [5] The couple would remain in Madrid from 1507 to 1508, when to the shock of many, Henry VII died of the same "mysterious illness" that had nearly claimed Arthur. [6] Following this sudden news, Arthur and Catherine returned to London, and following the period of mourning, had their coronation at the Palace of Westminster on April 21, 1508. [7]

[1] Henry VII was famous in his later years for his harsh taxation; ITTL this becomes a sticking point between him and the Prince of Wales.
[2] They would have a close marriage, but Arthur would father a small number of bastards during his life.
[3] Willoughby serves as Arthur's principle servant in the North of England during the early period of his reign.
[4] A useful part of learning to become king is how to both behave like, and deal with foreign dignitaries. Also IOTL Catherine served as Spanish ambassador to England, so its not entirely unprecedented.
[5] Ferdinand II of Aragon's illegitimate son. He and Arthur form a strong friendship during the Prince of Wales time in Spain, and he acts an unofficial envoy for Arthur in Spain.
[6] He dies a year earlier of tuberculosis.
[7] Yes they are crowned on the date Henry VII died IOTL.
 
Few thoughts
1) Unlikely both daughter's would be effectively given the same name Elizabeth/Isabella

2) Henry Duke of York's marriage
A foreign match becomes difficult the more heirs his brother has - and English princes hadn't previously done well in marrying abroad in most cases it was an attempt to secure a foreign throne or influence for the prince in question (Gloucester/Holland, Clarence/Milan, Lancaster/Castille etc) or because there were no other available royal matches to secure an alliance. So if you want a foreign wife you need it to be with a country that needs an English alliance or commercial tie with and that England requires the reverse. Likewise the father of the bride needs to be convinced that despatching his daughter to play second fiddle at the English Court is in his best interest. I would have thought Denmark that had been involved in conflict for much of the decade was a pretty poor bargain and Elizabeth married the Elector of Brandenburg in 1502 before your POD.
3) I think it is pretty unheard of for the heir to the throne to be sent out of the country as an ambassador - a temporary visit to shore up an agreement is one thing but to place your heir permanently abroad would be exceptionally rare and incredibly risky - given the recent domestic history of civil war in the country. Incidentally Catherine was given joint credentials with the resident ambassador by her father for a period of around two years in part due to her difficult position following Arthur's death.
4) It was unecessary for Arthur as Lord Warden to move north - the position had the benefit of being merely overlord to the wardens of the eastern and western marches (in this period Lord Dacre and the Earl of Northumberland) - his over riding duty was to run his council as Prince of Wales etc.
 
cheers for the feedback. i'll do a proper update retconning the last 2 once I've got some free time (lot of work atm so could be a while.)

just one question: who should I marry the Duke of York to? I was just wondering which noble family in England would offer the best bet.
 
Learning to Become King Mk II

Having survived illness and continuing the Tudor dynasty, resulted in Arthur being granted more responsibility. In 1506, along with his wife Catherine he made his first state visit abroad, meeting his wife's family in Madrid, where he formed a cordial relationship with his father-in-law Ferdinand. Returning back to London, he was increasingly included in Privy Council meetings and his father increasingly asked his opinion on affairs of state. This would later cause friction between father and son, as Arthur opposed his father's tax policy. [1]

During this period, Arthur maintained two mistresses; Margaret Wotton, a lady-in-waiting to Catherine and Mary Empson, daughter of his father's adviser Richard Empson. While neither would last for more than a few years, Arthur fathered two bastards with Margaret Wotton, Arthur and William Fitzroy whom he acknowledged as his own. [2]

In 1507, his brother Henry, Duke of York married Anne Percy, daughter of the Earl of Northumberland, in a small ceremony at Richmond Palace. [3] The same year, Arthur and Catherine were blessed with a second son, Ferdinand, Duke of Somerset. This happiness would sadly not last the year, as Henry VII died of the mysterious illness that nearly claimed Arthur on 21 February 1508. Arthur now found himself thrust into a new world.
 
completely forgot to do the footnotes!

[1] Henry VII became known for his punitive tax programme during the later period of his reign, ITTL this causes tension between him and the Prince of Wales.
[2] Like Henry VIII IOTL , Arthur was relatively faithful to his wife, but like many European monarchs he fathered bastards. In this case Arthur and William Fitzroy would find themselves in positions of power during his reign.
[3] The marriage of Anne Percy and Henry, Duke of York is politically useful to Henry VII, since it ensures the Earl of Northumberland's loyalty.
 
the first years 1508-1510

Arthur, despite the sudden shock of his father's untimely death, was well prepared for the throne, having been both educated in the duties of kingship, and a participant in the Privy Council meetings of his father. [1] Arthur, broadly maintained similar policies to his father, though he ended the punitive tax policies of his father and dismissed Richard Empson and Edmund Dudley from their positions as advisers to the crown. [2] Arthur, also pardoned members of the House of York imprisoned by his father, including Edmund de la Pole, Duke of Suffolk and Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset both of whom would eventually take positions at the royal court. [3] In 1509 Arthur, after prolonged negotiations with Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor, agreed to the betrothal of Maximilian's granddaughter Eleanor of Austria with Henry, Duke of Cornwall six years her junior. [4] While the agreement caused unease amongst some in the court, particularly in regards to the French reaction, most felt an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire would help prevent France from attacking England. [5]

In 1510, Arthur following debate with his Privy Council, agreed not to renew his father's treaty of friendship with Louis XII of France, instead settling on an alliance with Iberia and the Holy Roman Empire as a counterracting force to the French. While the policy was certainly logical in the eyes of the English, it would deeply offend and alienate the French, and would sow the seeds for future conflict... [6]

[1]-In marked contrast to how Henry VIII was unprepared for the throne IOTL.
[2]-Arthur does this for similar reasons to Henry IOTL, though he doesn't execute them.
[3]-This conciliatory attitude is adopted by Arthur, so as to firmly safeguard his throne from any Yorkist plot.
[4]-Maximilian IOTL planned for Eleanor to marry Henry. ITTL her marriage to the English heir, provides England with a useful ally in the case of French aggression, while also expanding English trade.
[5]-Fear of the French, is in my mind, a fairly good indicator of English foreign policy during this period.
[6]-More details on that conflict later. That it will be different to the League of Cambrai is the only thing I can promise at this stage.
 
Arthur, despite the sudden shock of his father's untimely death, was well prepared for the throne, having been both educated in the duties of kingship, and a participant in the Privy Council meetings of his father. [1] Arthur, broadly maintained similar policies to his father, though he ended the punitive tax policies of his father and dismissed Richard Empson and Edmund Dudley from their positions as advisers to the crown. [2] Arthur, also pardoned members of the House of York imprisoned by his father, including Edmund de la Pole, Duke of Suffolk and Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset both of whom would eventually take positions at the royal court. [3] In 1509 Arthur, after prolonged negotiations with Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor, agreed to the betrothal of Maximilian's granddaughter Eleanor of Austria with Henry, Duke of Cornwall six years her junior. [4] While the agreement caused unease amongst some in the court, particularly in regards to the French reaction, most felt an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire would help prevent France from attacking England. [5]

In 1510, Arthur following debate with his Privy Council, agreed not to renew his father's treaty of friendship with Louis XII of France, instead settling on an alliance with Iberia and the Holy Roman Empire as a counterracting force to the French. While the policy was certainly logical in the eyes of the English, it would deeply offend and alienate the French, and would sow the seeds for future conflict... [6]

[1]-In marked contrast to how Henry VIII was unprepared for the throne IOTL.
[2]-Arthur does this for similar reasons to Henry IOTL, though he doesn't execute them.
[3]-This conciliatory attitude is adopted by Arthur, so as to firmly safeguard his throne from any Yorkist plot.
[4]-Maximilian IOTL planned for Eleanor to marry Henry. ITTL her marriage to the English heir, provides England with a useful ally in the case of French aggression, while also expanding English trade.
[5]-Fear of the French, is in my mind, a fairly good indicator of English foreign policy during this period.
[6]-More details on that conflict later. That it will be different to the League of Cambrai is the only thing I can promise at this stage.

We only fear what we don't understand. And we refuse point blank to understand the French.
 
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