Three Colors, One Heart: The Modern Dutch Empire (PREVIEW)

TEASER TIME!

Ang here, ladies and gents, is a provincial flag to act as a teaser. I hope you all enjoy and speculate! (Only the most informed lovers of Dutch history will recognize the symbol :D.)

Flag of Recifestaat.png
 
The Dutch Brazil flag monogram? That's random...though the monogram might appear as a stylized eagle, hawk or crow to the Haudenosaunee, with interesting effects if it gets seen as favoritism to the Hawk clan.


From: http://www.belavista-rio.com/blog/archive/1/2008-10

From 1624 to 1661, part of northwest Brazil was Dutch Brazil. With the Spanish occupation of Portugal, the Netherlands, traditional commercial partner of Portugal but enemy of Spain, and with interests in Brazilian sugar cane, occupied the provinces of Pernambuco, Paraíba, Ceará, Alagoas, and, in the year 1641, Maranhão. The government of Dutch Brazil was administed by the Dutch West India Company (GWC). The flag used as the local flag of this period was the flag of the company (with the monogram). Today we can seen some Dutch descendants in the Northwest, which is in general a mixed Dutch and Indian people. The presence is noticeable in Paraíba and Ceará.

I am quite curious where you found this image; it differs quite a lot from the flag normally attributed to the Dutch West India Company.
Jarig Bakker, 14 June 2003

The Flag of the GWC was used during the Dutch occupation as the flag of Dutch Brazil and is shown in Clóvis Ribeiro's Bandeiras e Brasões as well as in various Brazilian history books as the "Dutch Brazilian flag."
André Pires Godinho, 15 June 2003

In Vexilla Nostra of March 1973, Karl Fachinger writes that the monogram might stand for CDIM (Companhia das Indias Meridionais), the Portuguese name for the Dutch VOC (East India Company), although he clearly states it isn't more then just a guess. In Vexilla Nostra of October 1973 an anonymous article contends that the monogram could show IMNCVD for Iohan Maurits van Nassau Catzelnbogen Vianden en Dietz. Johan Maurits van Nassau was governor-general of Dutch Brazil (also known as Nieuw Holland) and nicknamed "the Brazilian." Personally I find both guesses not very convincing.

Also, check out this link on the Iroquois before you formalize the relationship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois

Note the matrilineal clans (as opposed to Dutch patrilinealism) and the OTL flag.

There's a lot that will have to be worked out culturally and politically before things get too close.
 
Damn

Well Mr. Khan, you were right on the symbol...but wrong on the context. The next chapter focuses on Dutch expansion in south america and into places beyond OTL New England and New York. The flag I posted is that of Nieuw Holland.

By the way, the Dutch and Iroquios are not close per se...at least not yet. They still have seperate civil structures and such...they just have representatives at said structures. It basically amounts to 'I'll send troops to fight in your wars if you'll send troops to fight in mine!'. Expect conflict between the Dutch and Iroquois(other than the Mohawk) quite soon. And the Huron. And pretty much exery other people in America. The Dutch aren't too well liked at this point in the timeline.

I'll be posting part two in an hour or so when I'm on lunch break. Then some of the darkness will become clear ;).
 
Wiki has it as symbol of Nieuw Holland, as in Dutch Brazil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Holland_(Brazil)

OTL Nieuw Nederland (what became New York) had a different (and more boring) flag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Netherland


Or are you assuming a larger integration of Dutch New World colonies and parallel ATL Brazilian colonization?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Nieuw Nederland and Nieuw Holland are two different colonies, run by two different governments (and soon to be) two different trade companies.

New Nederland is going to be one of several semi-autonomous states, along with the Antillestaat(Carribbean territories), Acadie (Canadian), Nieuw Holland (Brazilian Territories), and another as-to-be-named (to the public anyway ;) ) state. Each state has a representative in the States General in The Hague, along with each of The Original Netherland States (Holland, Flanders, etc...), Mauricestaat (west Africa), Vaalstaat (south Africa), Oosten Holland (The east coast of Australia), Nieuw Zeeland (otl New Zealand), Nieuw Drenthe (Oriental and Island possessions), and Cochinstaat (Dutch India).

The representative (Minister General) is elected locally, in the state he (or she...but that's nowhere NEAR the 1600's) is from, to the States General of the United Netherlands in The Hague, which acts as the executive body of the United Netherlands Republic (known informally as the Union).

So, I hope that helps until the next chapters are posted. And to make everyone less confused...here is the flag of Nieuw Nederland.

Flag of Nieuw Nederland.png
 
Three Colors, One Heart
An Askelion Timeline
NEW AMSTERDAM, DECEMBER 24, 1587
The colonists erupted in cheer when they heard the news of the British withdrawl from America. The settlers of New Netherland had fought hard to maintain their hold on the port of New Amsterdam. There was famine. There was drought. The winters were horrible, and law was only just developing. Luckily for the wiley Dutchmen of America, they were doing far better than two of their three major rivals. The French and English had executed two major flaws in their attempts to conquer America. The French in particular had tarnished the early successes of their expedition when poor management incited the Native Americans to rise against the under equipped citizens of Quebec and Louisiana, forcing them to spoil their entire economy in order to invest in an overextended quagmire. The Britain, however, assumed that they would prove more than able to succeed where the weak-willed French had failed, and the inbred Spanish had succeeded for them. Unfortunately for Britain, Sir Walter Raleigh and his expedition were slaughtered by Cherokee, Iroquois, and Mohawk forces incited by the early expedition forces of the Dutch East India Company (VOC).

When I first opened this thread and started reading it, I was quite excited. Then you posted more, and I was strucked by the sheer lack of historical knowledge behind it. What is your PoD?!!?!!??

In 1587, the English settlement at Roanoke Island had just failed, and the French and Dutch were 20 years away from settling the New World. 1587, and you speak of "Louisiana," which wouldn't be founded till more than 100 years later??!! The English, French, and Dutch didn't successfully establish colonies on the NA eastern seaboard until the first 2 decades of the 17th century. "Louisiana" wasn't named until 1682, its first capital at Biloxi wasn't founded until 1699, and New Orleans, its eventual capital and main base, wasn't founded until 1718!

Forgive me for being rude, but you're going to need a whole lot of backstory and an original PoD way back several centuries to make this happen...
 
When I first opened this thread and started reading it, I was quite excited. Then you posted more, and I was strucked by the sheer lack of historical knowledge behind it. What is your PoD?!!?!!??

In 1587, the English settlement at Roanoke Island had just failed, and the French and Dutch were 20 years away from settling the New World. 1587, and you speak of "Louisiana," which wouldn't be founded till more than 100 years later??!! The English, French, and Dutch didn't successfully establish colonies on the NA eastern seaboard until the first 2 decades of the 17th century. "Louisiana" wasn't named until 1682, its first capital at Biloxi wasn't founded until 1699, and New Orleans, its eventual capital and main base, wasn't founded until 1718!

Forgive me for being rude, but you're going to need a whole lot of backstory and an original PoD way back several centuries to make this happen...

It looks like it should be "1687". At which point the "sheer lack of historical knowledge" is filled in.

Never attribute to ignorance what can be explained by momentary brain-farts. :p
 
It looks like it should be "1687". At which point the "sheer lack of historical knowledge" is filled in.

Never attribute to ignorance what can be explained by momentary brain-farts. :p

I hear ya, mon ami, but still, even in 1687 Louisiana was yet but a dream, not a reality.
 
New Thread Started!

To all who wish to know, I have decided to change the primary purpose of the PREVIEW thread. Instead of simply being a 'preview', I'd like to make this more of a place for my rough drafts. So, the new chapters in the timeline will be posted here first. After being revised(with your ideas and criticisms taken into account), I will move them to the new thread. So, I will ask you to continue helping me in this regard, and to not be afraid to speak up!

Thanks,
Ash
 
Please do correct me. In your infinite wisdom, I beg you to re-educate me in the history of the Louisiana colony.

Please, good sirs, do be civil. I personally trust in BM's knowledge of his home, but that is besides the point.

I beg that a flaming session doesn't erupt in my thread.

Thanks for cooperating.
 
People were shuffling anxiously thorough Nassau Plaza’s crowd, trying to get that last Christmas gift or two.

You know, I am realy disapointed in this. This is just horrible! Ok, maybe I exaggerate a bit. The thing is: the major gift giving day for the Dutch is not christmas but "Sinterklaas" which is not on december the 12th, but december the 5th or the 6th. This has been a tradition for centuries. You mentioned the Dutch masters; look at this painting by one of them, Jan Steen, in which you can see it being celebrated in the 17th century. I must admit that giving gifts at christmas becomes more and more common in the Netherlands, but that is an American phenomenon and without America (or more specific the USA) this would never have happened.

Also on a more serious note, I too think you are moving a bit to quickly. 16th century New Amsterdam is very early, just like a Franc-Dutch war in 1620 when the netherlands was still fighting for independence against Spain, so I really would like to know about the situation in the netherlands to know how these things could happen in your timeline. .
 
You know, I am realy disapointed in this. This is just horrible! Ok, maybe I exaggerate a bit. The thing is: the major gift giving day for the Dutch is not christmas but "Sinterklaas" which is not on december the 12th, but december the 5th or the 6th. This has been a tradition for centuries. You mentioned the Dutch masters; look at this painting by one of them, Jan Steen, in which you can see it being celebrated in the 17th century. I must admit that giving gifts at christmas becomes more and more common in the Netherlands, but that is an American phenomenon and without America (or more specific the USA) this would never have happened.

Also on a more serious note, I too think you are moving a bit to quickly. 16th century New Amsterdam is very early, just like a Franc-Dutch war in 1620 when the netherlands was still fighting for independence against Spain, so I really would like to know about the situation in the netherlands to know how these things could happen in your timeline. .

>_<

Boy am I embarassed! This is one of those reasons that I, as an avid follower of Dutch history, need to head to the Netherlands myself soon. After checking my sources, I have found myself to have amassed several incorrect ones, and I am purging through them now.

As such, I am going to scratch the TL and start from the ground up (although I'll simply edit Sinterklaas into the prologue). *facepalm*

I cannot thank you enough for bringing this to my attention.

~Ash
 
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