Thousand-Week Reich - A 'realistic' Nazi victory scenario

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by AP246, May 30, 2018.

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  1. AP246 Thousand Week Reich creator

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    Yeah. The effects of the horrors and subsequent violent self-inflicted collapse of Nazi Germany's racist totalitarianism really boost ideas of democracy and social justice/reform after 1960, known as the 'global spring'. A lot of countries not directly affected by the events of TWR get a boost either through non-radical cultural and political shifts or successful revolutions like in Korea.
     
  2. HistoricalArthropod Well-Known Member

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    A lot of countries are pretty undemocratic otl are pretty democratic here. Morocco, Iraq, Indonesia, Nigeria even Somalia. What's the deal here?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  3. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    So lets compare OTL vs TTL.


    [​IMG]

    The Americas are definitely improved from OTL. Especially Venezuela and much of South America's southern cone.

    Southern and East African also seem much better off, albeit with some more tumult.

    The biggest surprise TTL is Germany. One would think a generation of Nazi rule could leave behind some leaders who still have Nazi tendencies.

    Russia and the rest of Central Asia, however, still seem to be as...troubled as OTL. As are parts of Western and Central Africa.


     
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  4. Dr. Nodelescu AH.com Resident Landlord

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    Much of it is due to no Cold War and no need to engage in proxy wars. That's why Venezuela must have been balanced enough to not descend into any kind of Chavismo. That's also why Africa is more healthy. Zapadoslavia is obviously more scarred than OTL which only shows how much OTL Central Europe recovered from Communism after 30 years. Hungary is obviously better off without Nazi genocide and without Communism also which also avoids anything resembling the Orbanism of OTL. It's actually not much of a miracle that Germany is just as much the flower power democracy ITTL that it also became IOTL. The Nazi Civil War was an awful case of regime collapse, core Germany remained an economic union of welfare capitalism after its surrender and division, it's been integrated into the global economy and the generation effect that turned the fair weather democracy still claiming the Reich's 1937 borders in the 1950s and 60s into the consolidated democracy that it became in the early 1970s would still kick in. And Russia? Well, I guess any Russia with a POD after the aboliton of serfdom in 1867 can be happy if it reaches democracy levels on par of TTL's Natioanlist China.
     
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  5. Bleh Postpostmodern Neobrutalism

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    I would imagine the Atlantic Union has a part to play in that. If I recall correctly, many American nations are angling to join TTL and Mexico, Venezuela, and others are already members.

    Though one could imagine the same thing about Germany OTL. TTL, I imagine the Allies would have cracked down harder on anything remotely resembling authoritarianism or militarization, leaving little option to do anything other than become a democratic society with a free-trade economy.​
     
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  6. Frank Hart Be Who You Want To Be

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    We can conclude that any place with a Democracy Index under 3.00 has effectively no elections, or if any elections take place, there is no impact on the government.
     
  7. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    My headcanon is that without a Soviet Empire lingering about, the military junta and the multinational companies who back them can't cry about "communism". Thus, the US is more tolerant of left-leaning politicians.

    The other is that with Europe under Nazi rule, America retains the Good Neighbor Policy because it needs allies against the Nazi menace.

    Well, OTL Nazism only lasted 12 years, and Germany received a boat load of cash from the US.

    TTL, it has lasted far longer.

    OTL, a lot of nations struggle to achieve democracy. It took France 5 republics, 4 monarchies, and a period of fascism to get things right.
     
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  8. Bleh Postpostmodern Neobrutalism

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    That's true, though TTL the Allies were substantially more invested in re-inventing the German national identity and restructuring their society. I would imagine that no cost would be spared in such an endeavor, so the democratic Germany makes sense to me as a scenario in which comparable amounts of money flowed into the country at the end of the war but for a very different reason.
     
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  9. Saramello Member

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    The other is that with Europe under Nazi
    OTL, a lot of nations struggle to achieve democracy. It took France 5 republics, 4 monarchies, and a period of fascism to get things right.
    [/QUOTE]

    Considering the period of fascism wasn't from popular revolt but forcibly imposed I would contest the last one. And you never know, the french powder keg might explode yet again.
     
  10. AP246 Thousand Week Reich creator

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    Considering the period of fascism wasn't from popular revolt but forcibly imposed I would contest the last one. And you never know, the french powder keg might explode yet again.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah France is unstable, by the standards of European democracies. Almost 20 years of 'Vichy', then a civil war and now both nostalgic far right and radical left are powerful in the compromise that is the new French republic.
     
  11. Dr. Nodelescu AH.com Resident Landlord

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    Yeah France is unstable, by the standards of European democracies. Almost 20 years of 'Vichy', then a civil war and now both nostalgic far right and radical left are powerful in the compromise that is the new French republic.[/QUOTE]

    Even if you watch this OTL map for comparison, it's often flabbergasting to see how dysfunctional France looks compared to its immediate neighbors. I remember when France was still in the 0.8 range, yet when I really did the research, it was rather that they were just above 0.8 whereas Czechia was just under 0.8 and I take this example because the scores in the specific dimension measured were very similar between those two nations. OTL Spain on the other hand is, even more than Germany, a textbook example on how a country really fought to get rid of the agony of Franquismo, what like making up for lost time, I guess.

    Seriously, what do you think is the reason for France's "relative" dysfunctions compared to Western Europe? A naive newcomer may think that a country like France could or should be more like the UK.
     
  12. HistoricalArthropod Well-Known Member

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    Is it me or is Eritrea larger than otl? Why is this? And what happened for Somalia to be so much better off than otl?
     
  13. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    OTL Italian Empire expanded their borders at the expense of Ethiopia.
     
  14. AP246 Thousand Week Reich creator

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    Yes, it's based on actually OTL stuff where Italy split bits off Ethiopia after the invasion and added them onto Somalia and Eritrea within Italian East Africa, presumably as a sort of divide and conquer thing. There are some Italian maps from the time that show this redrawing of administrative boundaries but after a quick google search I couldn't find a good one, though I did use one for one of my maps which then formed the borders used in the modern day map.
     
  15. Entrerriano Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Here's one
     
  16. HistoricalArthropod Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, and these changes where not reversed for the same reason Italy gets to keep Tripoli and Istria I assume?

    And wouldnt Eritrea join Ethiopia here seeing as it's the same ethnicity (Tigrye)? I know otl they separated for political reasons but maybe things could go differently here.
     
  17. AP246 Thousand Week Reich creator

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    I don't know, I just thought that Italy holds its colonies long enough for those borders to become 'legitimised', as well as the divisions between those countries, and by the time they decolonise they just split it up based on existing administrative boundaries.
     
  18. Tamara Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was weird that Baltica ended up so much more democratic than Russia and Zapadoslavia despite being in a pretty similar position throughout the war, but then I looked at the OTL map and realized that it’s like that here too. Why do you think that is?
     
  19. AP246 Thousand Week Reich creator

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    My very uneducated guess and justification for this is that they are very small countries, so having a stable government is much easier, but beyond that, to be honest I don't really know.
     
  20. HistoricalArthropod Well-Known Member

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    What's the general situation like with Ethiopia? Is it better or worse than otl?
     
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