Thousand-Week Reich - A 'realistic' Nazi victory scenario

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by AP246, May 30, 2018.

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  1. LordInsane Supporter of the Alliance

    Yes, but a fear of being invaded by Nazi Germany won't last beyond Nazi Germany. And the scars and legacy are much, much stronger in Europe.
     
  2. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    That's a bit extreme. Israel is surrounded on all sides by enemies who find their mere existence an insult, and the nearest meaningful ally is across the Mediterranean. The US of TTL is surrounded by impassable oceans. If the English Channel could stop the blitzkrieg, the Atlantic Ocean can too.
     
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  3. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    Obviously they are harder in Europe.

    But the OTL existence of the USSR and its failure also had consequences beyond Europe as well. Socialism was given a bad name, and neoliberalism seen as the path to glory. America was not the only place where this occurred: Vietnam abandoned Marxism-Leninism, Italy's communist party broke apart, the South African ANC also abandoned wealth redistribution in favor of liberal capitalism, Cuba was forced to allow some private enterprise.

    Nazism has lasted a generation, completed its ghastly deeds, and then died. So its ripples will also be felt for quite a few generations.
     
  4. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    If anything, the United Kingdom will probably have changed more ITTL due to being right next to the super scary Nazi-ruled Europe.
     
  5. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    I bet the UK might position itself as "the Light of Europe." The single source of hope for millions of Europeans stuck under the Nazi jackboot. It is also possible they might be more militarized and egalitarian because of it.

    UK: We stand against tyranny and oppression and for liberty and self-determination.

    Colonized Africans and Indians: HAHAHAHA!
     
  6. Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    As other people mentioned the Post War Consensus might stick around longer.
     
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  7. Alex1guy First Of His Name

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    I've often wondered if Jewish terrorist groups would become a thing. Groups of individuals radicalized by the persecution of their people, now seeking revenge on the Reich and her allies.
     
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  8. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    There might.

    But they would need 1) great numbers and 2) backing from some other power.

    I can picture a Nazi victory world where the Japanese Empire is the protective power of Jewish communities.
     
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  9. Ephraim Ben Raphael Super Writer Extraordinaire

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    Most wouldn't be able to flee anywhere and would die, but the there would be Jewish communities who are citizens in their home countries the surrender of whom would be very difficult politically for their home governments. It's one thing to put your local Jews into a ghetto or restrict their rights because the Nazis ask you to, it's another thing to turn over your own citizens to a foreign country.

    The thought is that the Nazis would hold off on pressuring those countries for real until they finish murdering the more immediate subhumans. By the time they're ready for that however, there's been a German-Japanese split, and Hitler died in the late 1950s of Parkinson's and his amphetamine addiction, and the new leadership in Germania is more concerned with maintaining their globe spanning empire than wasting diplomatic capital trying to get at Jews in other countries. The Japanese never engaged in genocide- against the Jews at least- and the GEACPS dropped any explicitly anti-Jewish restrictions when Tokyo split with Berlin, although it's telling that the WJC is meeting in a neutral and democratizing Azad Hind rather than the Co-prosperity Sphere proper.

    I was imaging something like 6 million or so by the 1990s when the TL is from. The world's largest Jewish communities would be in Argentina and South Africa- both South Africa and Rhodesia caring rather more about one's skin color than one's religion, and Argentina being pro-German but also very far away from Berlin. Other Jewish communities are scattered here and there. There's even the Kararites within the Reich itself, who as in OTL are considered members of the Hebrew religion but not the Hebrew race and therefore were exempt from the Holocaust.

    Well you had the Avengers in OTL, so I would expect something like that here.
     
  10. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    South Africa is an odd choice because the Afrikaner nationalists who would establish apartheid were often antisemites who opposed Jewish immigration in the 1930s-at least until Israel was established and the apartheid government needed whatever friends it could find.

    ITTL, the victory of Nazism means it is unlikely those same nationalists would turn against antisemitism, since many of them were pro-Nazi, and would eagerly shake the hand of the world's new power.


    The weird about Japan is that took the antisemitism of the time too literally-rather then read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion with horror, Japanese people actually were impressed with this small, non-Christian group that, in the minds of the European far-right, had disproportionate power.

    Despite Japanese people being vicious to...well...pretty much everybody, they were (relatively) benign toward the Jewish populations within their borders.
     
  11. Ephraim Ben Raphael Super Writer Extraordinaire

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    It's not that South Africa is welcoming Jewish immigration, it's that they're not actively murdering the Jews already living in South Africa- some 60-70,000 persons by 1940.

    Quite so.
     
  12. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    I guess. But in any case, it is unlikely that the Afrikaner nationalists, seeing the Nazis as the "good choice", would exactly make things comfortable for Jewish communities.

    OTL, Harry Schwarz, the OTL anti-apartheid activist, suffered severe discrimination in his youth.
     
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  13. Alex1guy First Of His Name

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    That would actually be quite interesting to incorporate into the mod as events. Maybe it could crop up if Greater Syria manages to occupy or conquer Israel-Palestine. Bonus points if the Arabs and Jews radicals are co-operating in their efforts at sabotage against the Syrian fascists.
     
  14. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    I bet if such an organization did exist, here is what they would say:

    "The Greeks tried to take our faith. The Pharoahs tried to enslave us. The Crusaders tried to kill us as heretics. The Inquisition called us bestial. The tsars subjected us to misery. We've outlasted all of them. Who the hell are you?"
     
  15. Ephraim Ben Raphael Super Writer Extraordinaire

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    I like this a lot.
     
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  16. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    Thank you.
     
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  17. Saramello Member

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    Also, as a follow up to my earlier post, the Allies invade Germany in the 60s and they learn the extent of the brutality under Nazi rule. Of course, most people knew the nazis were bad, killing people, committing war crimes, killing every soviet soldier they came across, etc. But when the allies discover that One. Hundred. Million people are dead, as evidenced with pictures of giant pits full of their charred remains that flood into the states and the stories of those remaining, those earmarked as to be killed last by the now fallen Reich, of their families, just vanishing, just imagine the effect in the states. The six million jews eleven million total people sent the world into a shock. One Hundred Million people dead at the hands of THE racist authoritarian regime, right when the civil rights movement OTL is picking up momentum...it solidifies it. Instead of the red scare and fear of communism, we get a full-on black scare, fear of German fascism, and senators and congressmen who support segregation soon find their voter numbers dipping. I can imagine the 1965 US election as being a major upset, voting out many "old guard" segregationalists with newer, more liberal people. The democratic party would also have to go down one or two paths. Either they break with the south much faster than OTL due to the major public backlash against racist policies, or they grab on and solidify themselves once more as the party of the south while the Republicans climb to fame emphasizing their "small government not interfering with people(non authoritarian) and support of the second amendment. Given butterfly effects are hard to account for I would imagine the former rather than the later, but I can definitely see American Politics shift towards at least less racist and segregationalist policies at a faster pace than before.
     
  18. Tamara Well-Known Member

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    OTL, both the US and the U.K. are very proud of their role in WWII. TTL, they’d be almost insufferable about it.
     
  19. AP246 Thousand Week Reich creator

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    World Democracy Index Map

    Just finished this today. Will post in other places, like reddit and deviantart and stuff, but it's late and I'm tired. Here you go, hope you like it, and check the modern day world map if you're unsure about countries. Any questions, ask away!

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    It's nice to see that the Western Hemisphere is basically democratic, at least.
     
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