Thoughts on the BSG Series Finale

I really liked the series. It is the first I have watched from begining to end, although I missed some parts in between. Overall, I liked the series final, although I thought it went on too long. The battle scene, cool as it was, was over by nearly an hour into it, and at the point it suffered the LOTR style multiple endings.(150,000 years later? Come on!). Also, I have mixed feelings about the whole explanation of "There is a god!". On the one hand, it was kind of a motif, on the other hand, it seems like an easy way out of the plot lines made.

What do you guys think?
 

Japhy

Banned
I loved it, until the 150,000 years later thing, and even that was acceptable until we get the Robot Montage.
 
Well, I just gushed about it on the "Non-Political Chat" thread about BSG, and I'm glad to gush some more (by the way--it's not like these guys can do no wrong by me--I almost gave up on the series in the second half of season three).

Think of it like a really good novel. The last chapter will always tell you a bit about what happens to the characters, and with so much going on with these characters I'm glad we got the sense of resolution with these relationships--those last scenes with Roslin and Adama were just incredible.

The series has always been about ideas, thank God. And one of the things about that is that you can appreciate the series and disagree with the ideas, or vice versa. So the finale challenges some preconceived notions about technology and what constitutes the good life. So it ends up being theistic science fiction, and leaves us with an enchanted world of angels and ghosts. What of it?

BSG introduced one of its main characters by having her break an infant's neck, and at the end of the finale we see her strolling off to build a cabin in the woods to live happily ever after. So provocation is part of the essence of the series.

Yes a two hour space battle would have been more rah-rah fun, and this series has had that (my alltime favorite: destroying the Resurrection Ship). But as a story this was just so beautiful, I wouldn't change anything.

Except for the 150,000 years later part. You'd think people would have learned from AI that sort of thing doesn't work out. :rolleyes:



I really liked the series. It is the first I have watched from begining to end, although I missed some parts in between. Overall, I liked the series final, although I thought it went on too long. The battle scene, cool as it was, was over by nearly an hour into it, and at the point it suffered the LOTR style multiple endings.(150,000 years later? Come on!). Also, I have mixed feelings about the whole explanation of "There is a god!". On the one hand, it was kind of a motif, on the other hand, it seems like an easy way out of the plot lines made.

What do you guys think?
 

MacCaulay

Banned
I just got done watching it, since I work second shift. All I kept thinking about at work was: They better top the Battle of New Caprica.

About the time Lee was leading an assault team out of the FRONT OF THE SHIP I knew we were in for a ride. And I loved the way they were able to bring back the old school Cylons and keep the battle sequences straight at the same time.
I also dug the original series nod at the end, when they sent the fleet into the sun, and we all got to hear a few bars of the original theme.

Overall, they did good. I was surprised they were able to wrap up everything, and still not make it seem rushed.
 
Such a loss...

I have been a Battlestar fan from the original series to the current one. Unlike some, I appreciated the differences, but noted the similarities. (Both had a theist undercurrent, as different as they were.)

However, while I expected that the some from the fleet would end up on OUR Earth, and be the ancestors of mankind, it never occurred to me that they would willingly give up their history, much less their technology. Give up their essential civilization, as must have known would happen.

As we all know, without some kind of organization of tasks, civilization--writing and accumulated knowledge--will be lost over generations. If for no other reason that people forget how to copy the books.

To send the fleet into the Sun was a waste, and a terrible plot device. Sure, start over in the Garden of Eden, but at least leave the tree of knowledge for your distant descendants.

The paradise they created means their great grandchildren die at 35 in a hunter-gather tribe from diseases that are easily avoided by knowing even the most basic forms of the germ theory of disease (ie, done keep the food next to the excrement).

While my heart did soar to hear the original series theme as the fleet soar into the star, I have to admit I was left a bit disheartened.

Perhaps if the series had ended with the Galactica's Raptors escaping an exploding ship so that they had no choice but to revert to the simplest origins, I might have felt better.

But, for humanity to simply throw away millennia of advancement and accumulated knowledge. How pathetic...

So, here's my question. Would any of you have made that choice?
 
Burkean monarchist--

(Wow! What an appropriate screenname for the discussion, for certainly to a burkean that must have been a horrifying ending.)

I think there's two prongs to the question, the first is the question as it would have looked to these people, and the second is the question as it would seem to us in the circumstances we're in.

The point I've been making elsewhere on the internets is that the prospect for continued modernity with this population is dodgy at best. Literally, imagine if you had to re-start the population of the United States with whomever happened to be in airplanes at a given moment. Only those people's skills and professions would survive, and God help you with respect to the fact that some relatively survival-useless professions like salesmen, bankers and lawyers (for WIW, I'm a lawyer) but probably very few farmers. Second, think of everything that we use in our society that involves highly refined modes of production using disparate resources, like the computer I'm typing this post on. Third, in the same way that with one you had to rebuild our situation with everyone on an airplane at a given time, imagine then rebuilding the society with airplane and cruiseship reading. (Even library databases and the like would have had servers on the planets that were destroyed, so not all the knowledge survives).

And then you have to refine all this down further. Only those survivors and their knowledge survives who had FTL drives. Only those survivors and their knowledge survives who made it through Gina's nuclear suicide bombing and the New Caprica occupation.

And the series has hinted broadly enough at this. Gaius on Galacica in Season One is the all-purpose scientist because so few people with that level of technical skill survived. Kara is desperately looking for antibiotics for Anders at the end of Season Two when the cylons show up. And remember those episodes about labor unrest, where we get the idea that in keeping the tillium refineries going in the name of defense has really required a kind of quasi-forced labor.

And then finally with respect to the practical considerations, think about how the Cylons found New Caprica. Part of their gamble is about eliminating everything that could make a bang big enough to be discovered by cylons following another change-of-heart.

And finally as to why these people would make this decision: think about spending four years of your life in a tin can, as comfortless as Galactica or probably less so, for instance working the assembly line of that Tilium ship, eating algae-processed food with no such thing as outside, on the run from murderous robots. As much as I the person typing these words love my creature comforts, I can see how a Colonial who had had that life post-destruction of the twelve colonies would be glad to see things not in a Burkean light but a Rousseauan one, and make sure they were never on the inside of anythin metal ever again.

And at the same time, what imbalances in historical development come the first time one of our 150,000 years ago ancestors finds the first dead colonial with a still functioning sidearm? Do we want technology spreading freely, creating huge cultural imbalances?

I don't think the message is so much luddism (a casting off of technology because it is bad) so much as it is understanding that technological development (part of a "suite" of social advancements that include highly developed concepts like art, ethics, spirituality) can't just race ahead by itself without creating imbalances. So Lee realizes in his dialogue with his father that it might be best for humanity to focus a bit on B, C and D for a bit since A seems to have produced so much trouble for it.

Now, I buy that. And the message is one we should take away with us, although since we have not just been in a thousands-of-years-long cycle of genocidal war with unfriendly robots, this doesn't really involve anything as drastic as leaving aside our tech to go live in the woods.


I have been a Battlestar fan from the original series to the current one. Unlike some, I appreciated the differences, but noted the similarities. (Both had a theist undercurrent, as different as they were.)

However, while I expected that the some from the fleet would end up on OUR Earth, and be the ancestors of mankind, it never occurred to me that they would willingly give up their history, much less their technology. Give up their essential civilization, as must have known would happen.

As we all know, without some kind of organization of tasks, civilization--writing and accumulated knowledge--will be lost over generations. If for no other reason that people forget how to copy the books.

To send the fleet into the Sun was a waste, and a terrible plot device. Sure, start over in the Garden of Eden, but at least leave the tree of knowledge for your distant descendants.

The paradise they created means their great grandchildren die at 35 in a hunter-gather tribe from diseases that are easily avoided by knowing even the most basic forms of the germ theory of disease (ie, done keep the food next to the excrement).

While my heart did soar to hear the original series theme as the fleet soar into the star, I have to admit I was left a bit disheartened.

Perhaps if the series had ended with the Galactica's Raptors escaping an exploding ship so that they had no choice but to revert to the simplest origins, I might have felt better.

But, for humanity to simply throw away millennia of advancement and accumulated knowledge. How pathetic...

So, here's my question. Would any of you have made that choice?
 
I have been a Battlestar fan from the original series to the current one. Unlike some, I appreciated the differences, but noted the similarities. (Both had a theist undercurrent, as different as they were.)

However, while I expected that the some from the fleet would end up on OUR Earth, and be the ancestors of mankind, it never occurred to me that they would willingly give up their history, much less their technology. Give up their essential civilization, as must have known would happen.

As we all know, without some kind of organization of tasks, civilization--writing and accumulated knowledge--will be lost over generations. If for no other reason that people forget how to copy the books.

To send the fleet into the Sun was a waste, and a terrible plot device. Sure, start over in the Garden of Eden, but at least leave the tree of knowledge for your distant descendants.

The paradise they created means their great grandchildren die at 35 in a hunter-gather tribe from diseases that are easily avoided by knowing even the most basic forms of the germ theory of disease (ie, done keep the food next to the excrement).

While my heart did soar to hear the original series theme as the fleet soar into the star, I have to admit I was left a bit disheartened.

Perhaps if the series had ended with the Galactica's Raptors escaping an exploding ship so that they had no choice but to revert to the simplest origins, I might have felt better.

But, for humanity to simply throw away millennia of advancement and accumulated knowledge. How pathetic...

So, here's my question. Would any of you have made that choice?

Well I suppose their entire civilization has Post Traumatic Stress disorder, after all they were able to revert to rabbid religion easily enough so why not go Amish as well? The survivors from Kobol did, I think they did anyway, Ellen Tigh said something about reattaining Kobolian technology. The ending was disapointing, very disapointing but with the original earth removed from the equation and the OTL fossil evidence it was the only way to fit Battlestar Galactica into the original timeline. BUT DAMMIT I CANT ACCEPT IT AS A CONCLUSION! *sob* all those years of great shows to be thrown away with a terrible conclusion! There's only one way to deal with it, onwards to http://www.fanfiction.net and some of the better Stargate crossovers!
 
I thought it was a great finish for a great show. I actually thought that the 150,000 years bit was worth it just to see Ron Moore have a cameo :)

The one thing I would have liked to have known for sure is what happened to the cylon colony after the attack? Are we supposed to assume that they fell into the black hole or do Cavil and Co. all just die of old age?

Anyway I've been a BSG addict since the end of season one and i really enjoyed watching them end it.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
I thought it was a great finish for a great show. I actually thought that the 150,000 years bit was worth it just to see Ron Moore have a cameo :)

The one thing I would have liked to have known for sure is what happened to the cylon colony after the attack? Are we supposed to assume that they fell into the black hole or do Cavil and Co. all just die of old age?

Anyway I've been a BSG addict since the end of season one and i really enjoyed watching them end it.

I think that Racetrack's dead hand hitting the red-button (I was watching it with another machinist, and all we were doing was yelling "E-STOP! E-STOP!") launched the nukes and destroyed the colony.

Cavil shot himself. Which for me was the most susprising thing.
And yeah, the Ron Moore cameo was pretty cool!
 
More random thoughts....

A) I was thinking back to that episode where they return to Caprica, and there are survivors. That strikes me; despite a nuclear war, there still must be some survivors on the Twelve Colonies! Enough to start some kind of civilization!

B) I would of rather had them put the fleet behind the Moon or somesuch, because as silly as this is, their whole ordeal will be forgotten! Starbuck's worst fear come true. Not just their technology, but their history, their trials, the Cylons, all forgotten. Kinda depressing.

C) The Final Five(four) are immortal, right? So aren't they still around present day Earth? And they never really resovled the fact that the Cylons couldn't breed. Did any of the Final Four survive?

D) Did anyone else catch how Galen was going to an Island in the North(Britian/Ireland) where Gallic was spoken? I loved that.
 
I think the whole idea that our technology outstrips our moral development is a bit tiresome. But I suspect that the Galacticans would not have been able to maintain their own level of civilization for too long. Still, I wonder why they were not even able to maintain agriculture, seeing as it only took hold on this planet about 7000 BC?
 
I thoroughly enjoyed the series finale. Although the robot thing at end was a little bit cheesy I don't see it as a 'were simply repeating the cycle' but a sign we're different. If RDM wanted to warn about our robot creations why not show a montage of Military robots?
 
I'll second The Other Les: hang on as much as possible. And find some locations on-planet to bury copies of records, ship blueprints, history, everything, so that one day, their descendants could find what was lost, how humanity came to what we know as Earth, and the lessons of the past. And yes, on the 12 worlds, there probably are humans still living, and hopefully have rebuilt some kind of civilization. But also, on to fanfiction.net and spacebattles.com for some nice crossovers! SAAB, Stargate SG-1, and a fic at the latter site where the Fleet finds the Earth of 2013.
 
I'll just say that I've still got 'All Along The Watchtower' stuck in my head... That alone kept the last bit from being disappointing.
 
I'll second The Other Les: hang on as much as possible. And find some locations on-planet to bury copies of records, ship blueprints, history, everything, so that one day, their descendants could find what was lost, how humanity came to what we know as Earth, and the lessons of the past. And yes, on the 12 worlds, there probably are humans still living, and hopefully have rebuilt some kind of civilization. But also, on to fanfiction.net and spacebattles.com for some nice crossovers! SAAB, Stargate SG-1, and a fic at the latter site where the Fleet finds the Earth of 2013.

I thought that the 12 colonies were sterilized after the Cylon's failure on whatever that planet was that the humans settled on.
 
I think that Racetrack's dead hand hitting the red-button (I was watching it with another machinist, and all we were doing was yelling "E-STOP! E-STOP!") launched the nukes and destroyed the colony.

Ah thanks that clears it up then.

Also its always funny what people can and can't accept on a TV show. we'd never think twice about FTL, Cylons, anti-gravity and about a half dozen other things but we see theres no emergency stop it totally breaks the illusion (no offense i do the same thing BTW).
 
I always wondered if BSG would turn out to be an Alternate History (or more likely, Future History) show. It turns out to be a "Secret History" show.

Some points:
  • For realistic, naturalistic sci-fi, they sure jumped on the theological bandwagon in the end (well, it was always there, but I hoped there was more to it). I guess, it's fitting for a revamp of a show borne out of Mormonism.
  • Okay, I'm not really a UFO guy, but am I the only one who made the Grey-Centurion connection last night? I haven't seen it anywhere else.

    Here's how it goes: The Centurions leave on their baseship to build their own, no-human society (They deserve it). Over 140 some-thousand years, they evolve (as was implied they would) into shorter figures with bigger heads, lighter metallic skin and bigger eyes (to expand their visualizations, like Cavil always wanted to do). These descendants of Centurions evolve past their ancestor's mantra to *not* seek out their creators and discover New Earth in their fancy slicked out, new raiders. They show up, abduct a few for testing (possibly to determine how much if any Colonial/Cylon DNA is present), and of course, don't interfere.

    Heck, maybe the Grey Centurions will be helpful enough to stop us from developing any Cycle 4 Cylons in the near future.
  • Mitochondrial Hera: This is a problem on other message boards, but I see no problem whatsoever with her. Provided she's the only Cylon-Human hybrid in existence (the existing Twos, Sixes, and Eights never finding true love, conceivable if they live in their own separated civilization, on New Zealand or Hawaii or something).

    It can be assumed that her Cylon genetic makeup (mitochondria is inherited from the mother) is one of the small molecular differences between Colonials and Cylons, and obviously from the "compatible" Cro-Magnons. It isn't inconceivable for Caprica (who had one failed pregnancy) and Ellen (has had issues for *centuries* conceiving) to not have any children, so (assuming my invented died-off 2-6-8 colony is true) Hera and her descendants are the only carriers of Cylon mitochondria.

    I once heard that 1 out of every 4 people are descendants of Charlemagne. While this might not exactly be true, Hera had a 149,000 year head start on ol' Charles and if her line survives just a couple hundred years, it's hard to imagine how it could *not* expand to all of humanity within even a few millenia. Only a mass extinction could stop it, and it would have to be *very* soon after the Colonial arrival. Hera would only need to have one child (a daughter, who also needs to have children) to make this destiny happen.
  • Archaeological remains - 150,000 years is a long-time so their fancy brown jumpsuits would probably be all gone. While they didn't seem to bring much other than "the clothes on their backs," what will happen when we discover the hundred-thousand-year-old wedding ring (fossilized in the middle of a mountain, near the remains of an ancient wooden structure)? I'm sure there are tons of bronzed/golden/or plainly just metal items amongst the 38,000 that would baffle the smartest minds, and provide fodder for all those crazy "Ancient Astronaut" types.
 
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