These Hills Sing of Saxon Kings - Or, The Planning Thread for My Other Next TL

I'm taking on two TL's at once! Why, you ask? Quite simply because I am accustomed to c. 2000 year detailed TLs, and starting at 1242 just won't satisfy that... itch. ;)

I have the most basic ideas fleshed-out. William is utterly defeated at Hastings, and he is forced to remain content with Normandy. Beyond that, I know that Harold ought die c. late 1070s-mid 1080s, and more than likely pass the kingdom to his son by Edith Swanneck, Godwine.

But what was Harold's domestic policy like (besides beating back Normans and Vikings? :rolleyes: ) Wikipedia is frustratingly vague about it. Although one article puts forward the hypothesis that England might have become more culturally and economically important, as the Normans preferred their French possesions and in a sense left England to rot. I personally am in disagreement with this, but I need the opinions of someone more well-versed in English history.

I figure France will actually consolidate peacefully, and perhaps as early as the mid 1300s. Phillip II would have basically taken full control of Northern France as he did IOTL, and because the HYW is avoided altogether, France is united c. mid-1300s.

England is united under the Saxon kings, but I'm not sure as to how the Saxons approach Scotland and Ireland. Was there a Saxon precedent for dealings with the Scots and Irish?

And I can't seem to recall, but did the HYW have any sort effect on the politics of the HRE or Italy? I somehow doubt it, but I just wanted to check.

Basically, this is your dumping ground for any idea you have in your head. Discussion and debate is encouraged!
 
I don't believe the Anglo-Saxons ever made a serious try towards Scotland, Wales or Ireland. Wales had already unified a few times only to fall apart- one or another of the kingdoms will manage to make it stick eventually.

Actually, I wonder... the Normans still have that whole conquest urge, with the landless nobles and all... say, they get it into their head to invade another island... one just nearby, and this one doesn't have any one united state, just a bunch of petty kingdoms...
 
I'd expect the Saxons to try and consolidate their holdings. Perhaps Great Britain, or both Britain and Ireland will be united in such a TL as they were in ours. Linglistically, the English will speak a language that features far less French.
 
The Isle of Man?! Brilliant! :D ;)

In all honesty though, I think the Norman nobility and perhaps even the French monarchy might try to reign in Billy, being sick of military adventurism...
 
I don't believe the Anglo-Saxons ever made a serious try towards Scotland, Wales or Ireland. Wales had already unified a few times only to fall apart- one or another of the kingdoms will manage to make it stick eventually.

Actually, I wonder... the Normans still have that whole conquest urge, with the landless nobles and all... say, they get it into their head to invade another island... one just nearby, and this one doesn't have any one united state, just a bunch of petty kingdoms...

A Norman Ireland without a Norman England?:eek:

That might actually work...The Irish were out of favor with Rome at that time IIRC.
 

Thande

Donor
I can see Harold centralising power more than earlier A-S kings, particularly after Tostig's betrayal (and implicitly with it those lands for which Tostig was overlord).
 
I can see Harold centralising power more than earlier A-S kings, particularly after Tostig's betrayal (and implicitly with it those lands for which Tostig was overlord).

I agree. Might Christianity become important in this Britain as well. If I Recall Correctly, William replaced much of the old clergy IOTL...
 
I can see Harold centralising power more than earlier A-S kings, particularly after Tostig's betrayal (and implicitly with it those lands for which Tostig was overlord).

That was my original plan. Harold, having danced with death (or, rather, Normans and Vikings, but nevermind the metonomy) settles down.The next series of kings would bring a sort of Pax Saxorum to the English part of the British Isles, but from there it seems open-ended...
 
I agree. Might Christianity become important in this Britain as well. If I Recall Correctly, William replaced much of the old clergy IOTL...
Didn't the Pope sponsor the OTL conquest? This would certainly hurt relations between England and the Church.
 

Thande

Donor
Of course, with no Harrying of the North, A-S England will not be so biased towards the south in terms of population and development (there still will be a slight bias as that's where the capital - Winchester - is)
 

Thande

Donor
Didn't the Pope sponsor the OTL conquest? This would certainly hurt relations between England and the Church.

I remember someone (I can't remember how seriously) suggesting Harold would even turn the country towards the Orthodox Church in response.

(Or the good old 'Return of the Celtic Church' schtick ;) )
 
Didn't the Pope sponsor the OTL conquest? This would certainly hurt relations between England and the Church.

Exactly. TTL's Church in England would be far more similar to its counterparts in Ireland, Wales, and Scotland than it would be to France, or rather, Rome.
 
I remember someone (I can't remember how seriously) suggesting Harold would even turn the country towards the Orthodox Church in response.

(Or the good old 'Return of the Celtic Church' schtick ;) )

Well, considering that the Orthodox Break with Rome came 29 years AFTER the Battle of Hastings...
 

Thande

Donor
Exactly. TTL's Church in England would be far more similar to its counterparts in Ireland, Wales, and Scotland than it would be to France, or rather, Rome.
Probably.
Well, considering that the Orthodox Break with Rome came 29 years AFTER the Battle of Hastings...
Officially, yes, but the division had been growing for a long time before that.
 
I don't think England will be hurt too severly in her realtions with Rome. The Pope would probably stop backing William (who was a bastard anyways), realizing that he has no chance of taking the English Crown...
 

Susano

Banned
Well, considering that the Orthodox Break with Rome came 29 years AFTER the Battle of Hastings...

The official break. And its distorting to say the "Orthodox Break with Rome". You might as well say the "Latin Break with Constantinople". It was a mutual break. Anyways, there clearly were two distinct sides even before the official break.
 

Thande

Donor
The Pope would probably stop backing William (who was a bastard anyways),
In every sense of the word :rolleyes:

Funny thought (mainly inspired by the fact that I saw Susano had posted) - what if England, remaining a primarily Germanic nation, ends up as part of some eventual German unification? :eek:
 
In our own timeline, there is a small British Orthodox Church, but it is Oriental-rather than Eastern-Orthodox in outlook. This Church rejects the Council of Chalcedon's decisions.

ITTL, however, a British Orthodox Church, if it emerged, might be one to come under Constantinople rather than Rome, Antioch, or Alexandira.
 
The official break. And its distorting to say the "Orthodox Break with Rome". You might as well say the "Latin Break with Constantinople". It was a mutual break. Anyways, there clearly were two distinct sides even before the official break.

Excuse me, the phrase "Theological divorce" may have been more apt on my part. You are correct.
 
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