There Is No Depression: Protect and Survive New Zealand

Errolwi

Monthly Donor
North Island generation includes the Waikato River dams, the last completed in 1971. The Tongariro Power Scheme was mainly commissioned OTL. Huntly will have 2 or 3 250MW coal/gas units operational (with the gas pipeline to Maui in place). Wairakei geo-thermal also available.
The NI Hydro schemes get the most rain in winter, and have less potential in summer (but demand lower then). In spring the South Island hydro lakes fill from snow melt.

Hey, WP has a handy list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_New_Zealand

Note: partially ninjaed by ToNZ
 

Errolwi

Monthly Donor
... Mind you, Huntly A can produce an extra 250MW with 90 days' notice, so there should be enough to start coping with the winter.

Huntly isn't fully commissioned yet, is it? The station being built was a feature of childhood holiday trips south from Auckland for me. The mothballing with 90-days notice (in case of successive dry years I assume) is fairly recent I thought?
 
Huntly isn't fully commissioned yet, is it? The station being built was a feature of childhood holiday trips south from Auckland for me. The mothballing with 90-days notice (in case of successive dry years I assume) is fairly recent I thought?

It was commissioned in 1983, but only Huntly 1-4, so 500MW on the two coal-and-gas fired steam turbines (the gas turbine wasn't in until 2007); you're quite likely right on the 250MW extra capacity not yet being available but as I mentioned these are very back-of-envelope calculations as yet.

EDIT: actually, from Wiki (yep, that's my go-to), it appears that there were four turbines installed between 1973 and 1984 - even if only 3 are installed, it's still a decent amount of juice for the National Grid.
 
Plus side, this fits with the loose structure I had for the TL throughout the winter of '84; I'm probably going to have to go and do some research first. *shudders*

There's a fair bit of generation capacity along the Waikato; the summer of 83-84 was a wee bit drier than usual, but autumn made up for it so I'll take river flows as normal for my initial estimates. However, all but one of 2015's existing geothermal plants don't yet exist in 1984; this is at least 840MW of power less so yeah, rationing'll be the happening thing in the Bay of Plenty. Mind you, Huntly A can produce an extra 250MW with 90 days' notice, so there should be enough to start coping with the winter.

Looking at the maps, it seems like the transmission lines to Northland pass far enough to the south of the blast damage - through Onehunga and along to New Lynn and West Auckland - that power will remain on north of the isthmus. Ironically, the fact that all but one of the major lines passes through Otahuhu is a stroke of luck here; although it makes the area vulnerable to blackouts, it means that a nerve centre of infrastructure is safe.

Further south, it also seems that the lines between the lower South to points north are indeed only 110kV, compared to the heavier 220kV lines used for Manapouri's power load - so as Errolwi pointed out, this'll make shifting Manapouri's power further north a moot point until well after the more pressing matters have been dealt with. Assuming Ohau B is still completed (it was practically finished anyway, just filling), that's another 220MW coming online - but Ohau C may be delayed past OTL's 1985 date.

Your whanau'll be happy though Julius; power supplies south of the Waitaki'll be ample in this case - hell, it may be that there's an oversupply.

Any electrical engineers out there whose advice I might seek in future? I mean I'm next door to a university, but strangers on the internet are ever so much less fuss than strangers in real life :p

There almost certainly will be an oversupply in the lower South - but then that is true always. Happily I guess the hydro projects can be turned off easily enough.

Next question - who makes large quantities of electricity generation cables? I would imagine at the time there would be a NZ based manufacturer, for reasons of FORTRESS but where do they get their feedstocks?

IIRC Christchurch still has and no doubt had then quite a large cable manufacturer
 
Some of that leftover aluminium?

That would make sense, although i'm not sure if that is how they actually did it OTL. Might take some time to sort out restocking if they sourced their feedstock overseas.

I wold imagine however that the Electricity Department and local lines companies would have a lot of cabling on hand for various works
 

Errolwi

Monthly Donor
There almost certainly will be an oversupply in the lower South - but then that is true always. Happily I guess the hydro projects can be turned off easily enough.

Next question - who makes large quantities of electricity generation cables? I would imagine at the time there would be a NZ based manufacturer, for reasons of FORTRESS but where do they get their feedstocks?

IIRC Christchurch still has and no doubt had then quite a large cable manufacturer

The Chch one will be more useful than the New Plymouth one that I visited last week!
http://www.nexans.co.nz/eservice/NewZealand-en_NZ/navigate_307437/Our_History.html

You prefer high-quality copper, recycled stuff creates more flaws.
Hydro scheme underway around Twisel, so a far bit of infrastructure about.
 
There won't of course be as much of a demand for electricity in the Wellington & Auckland areas.

Demand dropped by however much power 150,000 or so people use pretty much instantly on Feb 22, and given what we know of fallout & injuries I don't think 300,000-400,000 people no longer needing mains power is an unreasonable estimate. I can see generation capacity being something of a non-issue though transmission of what is generated may be difficult in places on account of increased demand wherever refugees end up.

Environment standards weren't as strict in the 80s. In places where power is short one conservation measure may be to encourage the use of fireplaces for heating, cooking, and water heating where appropriate.
 
I'd say it's pretty boned then. Right, brownouts it is for the North, until they get the lines back up.
.

Actually I happened to be out that way today and I realised my placement wasn't quite right. The line is mostly on the west facing slope of that ridge so terrain shielding (which nukemap makes zero allowance for) will be a significant factor in damage sustained, as it will elsewhere in Wellington. Scrub and grass or forest fires started by the thermal pulse might be more of an issue than direct effects.
 
The Chch one will be more useful than the New Plymouth one that I visited last week!
http://www.nexans.co.nz/eservice/NewZealand-en_NZ/navigate_307437/Our_History.html

You prefer high-quality copper, recycled stuff creates more flaws.
Hydro scheme underway around Twisel, so a far bit of infrastructure about.

Very good point, I had forgotten that the Twizel projects were in progress at the stage. Ohau A and B were finished roughly about this time.

Clyde Dam would also be a good source of materials as I imagine a lot of the materials would be in place
 
You prefer high-quality copper, recycled stuff creates more flaws.
Hydro scheme underway around Twisel, so a far bit of infrastructure about.


Very good point, I had forgotten that the Twizel projects were in progress at the stage. Ohau A and B were finished roughly about this time.

Clyde Dam would also be a good source of materials as I imagine a lot of the materials would be in place

I mentioned Ohau A and B above, and assumed the materials for C (which was commissioned in 1985) were all in place around Twizel - but I never even considered using all of that copper and cable further north.

An Internet cookie for Errolwi :) (that's not me being condescending; I'm just very bad at praise :eek: ) and a cameo, should you care for such a thing
 

Errolwi

Monthly Donor
Cheers!

I had a depressing thought earlier today - the 2010 & 2011 Christchurch earthquakes are going to put a severe dent in the NZ economy, which will have more stuff around Chch than OTL, and a much higher proportion.
 
I mentioned Ohau A and B above, and assumed the materials for C (which was commissioned in 1985) were all in place around Twizel - but I never even considered using all of that copper and cable further north.

An Internet cookie for Errolwi :) (that's not me being condescending; I'm just very bad at praise :eek: ) and a cameo, should you care for such a thing

You did indeed, I wasn't paying enough attention. I think I was looking at it more from the materials point of view.

On the matter of Twizel and the Waitaki Valley, there may also be a lot of spare/surplus housing in the area too, as it may just predate the sell off -although I'm not sure.

https://researcharchive.lincoln.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10182/6556/Leap-rr-38.pdf?sequence=3
 
Cheers!

I had a depressing thought earlier today - the 2010 & 2011 Christchurch earthquakes are going to put a severe dent in the NZ economy, which will have more stuff around Chch than OTL, and a much higher proportion.

The keener-eyed amongst you may have already noticed faint allusions to this - stay tuned for more on that later.
 
Good update.

Plan on having Peter Jackson make an appearance (assuming he's not dead; he lived in or near Wellington?

Okay, I apologise for coming in a bit late in the day....

Peter Jackson's family lived at Pukerua Bay. He went to Kapiti College up at Raumati Beach (same class as my younger sister who says if only she'd known....). When the bomb drops he was working for the The Evening Post (Wellington newspaper) and still living with his family at Pukerua Bay. So he probably survived....

I was living in Holloway Road up the Aro Valley at the time - and that's pretty close to the epicentre - suspect I would have been a crispy critter....altho thinking back, I was also in the Territorials (7WnHB Support Coy) at the time - Cpl CanKiwi - so I was probably mobilised....phew!

TVNZ from 1980. As well as Dougal Stevenson there were people like Philip Sherry, Tom Bradley, and Angela D'Audney presenting the news as well (among others).

This is a real blast. Back in the early 1980's I worked in broadcasting briefly - my girlfriend's Mom was a senior exec - she got me into Radio NZ and she was pal's with all the above. Met them at a few parties. Dougal Stevenson was just a nice guy! I think you really captured him here....

Also, 24,000 words so far over about 40 pages. Windy sod, ain't I?

LOL! No, I'd have said rather concise myself (speaking as somebody who waffles for 100,000+ words on conscription in Finland in the 1920's and 30's......)

Subscribed btw. Bloody wonderful timeline mate :D. Spent half the morning reading thru and loving it.....
 
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There is always room for more discussion on the economics of forestry as well, you know :p

On an unrelated note, I wonder how much in the way of reserves/equipment the motorcar assembly and manufacturing industries had at this point in time?

My assumption is that the industry would grind to a halt in terms of manufacturing quickly enough but would retain sufficient facilities to refurbish and keep running the existing car stocks, so far as supplies of essential material would allow anyway.
 
Thames still had a full car assembly plant running at the time right? Or did it always just refurbish imported Toyotas? How much of it was made in NZ, or were we just assembling things from Japan?

On that note, how nuked did did Japan get?
 
There is always room for more discussion on the economics of forestry as well, you know :p

On an unrelated note, I wonder how much in the way of reserves/equipment the motorcar assembly and manufacturing industries had at this point in time?

My assumption is that the industry would grind to a halt in terms of manufacturing quickly enough but would retain sufficient facilities to refurbish and keep running the existing car stocks, so far as supplies of essential material would allow anyway.

Yeah, the vehicle manufacturing industry was still running altho it was largely assembly rather than manufacturing from start to finish. The flood of imports only started after Labour was elected and relaxed the controls on imports of fully-assembled vehicles.

I'd see a bit of a boom in LPG conversions though. You've just lost oil imports and NZ didn't have a lot of reserves at Marsden Point. So LPG and DIY conversions to stuff like charcoal-burners are going to take off. And what about farming and fuel for farm vehicles. Lots of farmers going back to horses.

Thames still had a full car assembly plant running at the time right? Or did it always just refurbish imported Toyotas? How much of it was made in NZ, or were we just assembling things from Japan?

A lot of it was assembly from parts. There wasn't a lot that was actually manufactured from scratch. They used imported CKD packs mostly. Thames was an assembly plant (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_New_Zealand#Assembly_plants)
 
Thames still had a full car assembly plant running at the time right? Or did it always just refurbish imported Toyotas? How much of it was made in NZ, or were we just assembling things from Japan?

On that note, how nuked did did Japan get?

I thought it was largely local assembly of kit imported, with much of the supporting components made locally. Not sure about that though.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/cars-and-the-motor-industry/page-3

I was watching Good Bye Pork Pie the other day, which was filmed in the early 80s and was reminded just how British the car stock was at that point, pre 1984.
 
I thought it was largely local assembly of kit imported, with much of the supporting components made locally. Not sure about that though.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/cars-and-the-motor-industry/page-3

I was watching Good Bye Pork Pie the other day, which was filmed in the early 80s and was reminded just how British the car stock was at that point, pre 1984.

Oh yes, there were a lot of British vehicles. Triumphs, Hillmans, Ford Anglia's, Leylands (they were horrible), Austins, Bedford trucks..... you name it.
 
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