The Z-Plan was a dumb one for Germany, but how much difference did it make?

How much difference did the Z Plan make for the use/misuse of German resources

  • alot

    Votes: 7 16.7%
  • not much

    Votes: 35 83.3%

  • Total voters
    42

raharris1973

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The Z-Plan was an ambitious German naval surface fleet build up that Hitler approved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Z

I recall reading a few articles and commentary lampooning it as grossly inappropriate for the Germany's situation and a misallocation of resources.

However, the plan was only launched in early 1939, and almost all of its authorized construction was cancelled and diverted to more urgent uses once war was actually declared in September 1939?

So how much difference did did it make since it affected German production for only 6 to 9 months?
 
As it never got beyond the planning stage it made no difference to the allocation of resources. Only some initial design work was wasted.
 

Deleted member 1487

As it never got beyond the planning stage it made no difference to the allocation of resources. Only some initial design work was wasted.
It did start, several keels were laid down and then subsequently broken up, costing valuable time, steel, manhours, dock space, etc. Breaking them down took until early 1940.
 
It probably did use a fair amount of resources, but given how rapidly it was canned I rather doubt it was anything like a decisive amount. Still, HistoryLearner's assessment that expending those resources on a expanded submarine program would have been more useful for the Germans is probably entirely accurate.
 
Guns, machinery and armor plate where produced.
The parts for either repurposed or recycled, but it did put a delay in the production lines for more useful equipment.
 

raharris1973

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Did it provide Germany any of the trade goods that it used to get for stuff it really needed from Russia? I remember naval tech was part of what the Germans exported to the Soviets. The nice thing from their point of view is that this was relatively more harmless than a comparable amount of ground or air forces tech.
 
History Learner has it. Hitler should have listened better. Seems he did not learn much from WW1 Naval actions. He should have never considered the Z Plan and instead should have demanded much better and more subs. With the steel saved not putting it into useless large surface ships more and better land armor comes to mind. Also a heavy bomber. Also a heavy over the road truck. Just me. We are very lucky indeed Hitler screwed up so many times.

Respectfully.
 

Deleted member 94680

I read an article today (I have no idea how accurate it was) that mentioned the steel for the XXI U-boats could have built 5000 tanks. That was just two 1620 tonne vessels. I know type XXI U-boats were not part of Plan Z, but the principle holds true. Even if the steel used can be repurposed (and not all of it can be) it’s the time that is lost.

It’s not only the steel and manpower wasted (every man trained as a sailor needs to be retrained as a soldier, or put into the field drastically under-quality), it’s the research wasted as well. Every day spent trying to design a new cruiser is a day someone could have spent ironing out kinks in the design of, say, the high power aero engines Germany lacked or even simplifying the future heavy tank designs.
 
Would’ve been far better to build more submarines.

History Learner has it. Hitler should have listened better. Seems he did not learn much from WW1 Naval actions. He should have never considered the Z Plan and instead should have demanded much better and more subs. With the steel saved not putting it into useless large surface ships more and better land armor comes to mind. Also a heavy bomber. Also a heavy over the road truck. Just me. We are very lucky indeed Hitler screwed up so many times.

Respectfully.
The problem is when? To avoid the waste they need to start early on and that means no AGNA, that GB will back France totally over a war......
 
I read an article today (I have no idea how accurate it was) that mentioned the steel for the XXI U-boats could have built 5000 tanks. That was just two 1620 tonne vessels. I know type XXI U-boats were not part of Plan Z, but the principle holds true. Even if the steel used can be repurposed (and not all of it can be) it’s the time that is lost.

It’s not only the steel and manpower wasted (every man trained as a sailor needs to be retrained as a soldier, or put into the field drastically under-quality), it’s the research wasted as well. Every day spent trying to design a new cruiser is a day someone could have spent ironing out kinks in the design of, say, the high power aero engines Germany lacked or even simplifying the future heavy tank designs.
No that was 118 1620 ton vessels, only 4 were combat ready and 2 patrolled, but they assembled 118 of them

Not really, different kinds of engineer, Naval Architects are pretty damn specialized

Anyways Plan Z was not quite so crazy given that it was due for 1948. What was an unnecessary waste was the steel used on H & J (8,000t), the minimal work on M&N and SP1 getting laid down during the war. GZ and her sister predated the Z Plan, as do the other major surface units actually built. Mind you by the time Hitler approved it he was thinking on war happening soon, so approving it was a waste but not that big of one. Could have better used those resources to complete Seydlitz and Graf Zeppelin and use them as a fleet in being along with Tirpitz, with extra resources going to more small craft and subs, if the Allies attack them you can build a damn big flak trap and make them pay, if they don't it's more ships they have to keep sitting around Scapa rather than actively fighting the Japanese or Italians
 
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