Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Nazi Space Spy, May 12, 2018.
this actually makes sense that they be british. @Nazi Space Spy i say we change it to this way.
Yeah i was thinking make them british (since they'd want their island) and the dutch get all of south africa (and all the retcons that come with that).
Obviously here, the indians that would have gone originally to south africa end up here (hence the high indian population, including otl pakistani and bangladeshis) along with a more diverse population in general (arabic part came from what i read about traders from that region coming to madagascar when they would come down the east coast of africa) Though i'll probably give a better breakdown as well
South Africa is going to be interesting however in that same regard, how their history changes (it probably is a lot more afrinkaaner dominated with little to no british influence).
Interesting, but based on your population figures there are over 11 million white Madagascans. That implies over the 20th century millions emigrated there. Why would so many people go to Madagascar compared to resource-rich areas such as Rhodesia, Katanga and Congo, all under British rule?
it’s possible that it could be more of a penal colony, where they shipped a bunch of prisoners, sorta like australia.
Not to mention, it seems that the native population was reduced from 25 million to 7 million.
I'm on board in British Madagascar, but I don't think at this point it'd be a good idea to retcon South Africa; such retcons can consume the timeline, but I'm open to more discussion about it as we move along and if there is more debate about the idea.
you think a compromise would be worth it? keep british s.a. but have it be more afrikaner dominant?
Yeah that sounds good enough to give us some comparison to OTL. Perhaps the north of the country like where the South African republic was is very Boer dominated even being the plurality ethnic group.
The British did plan to make penal colonies in Africa OTL, but the plan was for them to be around South Africa & Namibia or Guinea, though that was as a result of the loss of America.
I mean an easy way of doing it is to have the british lose the boer war (and maybe have the dutch help).
Do modern companies like Google and Amazon exist ITTL?
OTL google was founded in California by two people who met in Palo Alto California. Because of the nature of California ITTL its unlikely these two ever meet and Found google. Instead it is more likely Microsoft's Bing and another company like AOL are in competition when it comes to search engines. As well as these two there is likely to be a major German,British or Russian Competitor on the internet.
Jeff Bezos may still live somewhere like Texas and may still found Amazon however the company's success may be undermined because of this.
Id like to hear some other opinions from my fellow contributors on an issue like this because im not fully knowledge in these kind of things.
speaking of tech:
Apple Inc. is perhaps one of the most powerful tech corporations, rivalling only Microsoft in its size and scope. Founded in 1976 by Sirs Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, its Apple I, Apple II, and Macintosh computers revolutionized the PC market, and with the coming with the iPhone in 2007, heralded the beginning of an era dominated by cellular technology. Today, with Jobs still at the helm, Apple continues to push the boundaries of tech and make what people consider the best phones and PCs on the market.
Microsoft Mosaic is one of the most popular web browsers on the internet. Created in 1992 by the University of Illinois' National Center for Supercomputing Applications, it was bought by the rising tech power Microsoft. After the acquisition, Mosaic was included on every Windows system since Windows 95, which secured it's domination over the web browsing market, which it holds to this day.
while apple was founded similarly to google, i believe that franklin could be a ttl version of california, with tech companies sprouting up around seattle, vancouver, and perhaps even around swansea.
i think that we should keep google out, but include apple unless you want something where tech and especially pcs and phones are radically different.
mosaic is pretty much like ie, and in fact ie is based of of mosaic, so it's not that hard to see this happening imho.
Ok so this is my proposal for South Africa. Having won the boer war (with the help of the dutch and germans), South Africa is a lot more afrikaaner influenced as a result. The British where already more focused on Madagascar to begin with (hence otl indentured labourers from India end up in Madagascar instead of South Africa and the white population is very much less british and more from germany, holland, france and eastern and central europe).
Despite the higher GDP than otl, it very much suffers from the same problems as OTL (ridiculously high income inequality, rural-urban divide etc) but crime is slightly better (slightly).
Republiek van Suid Afrika (Republic of South Africa)
Largest City: Johannesburg
Official Languages: Afrikaans
Other Recognised Languages: English, Zulu, Xhosa, Ndebele
Other Languages: Sotho, Tswana, Sesotho, Tsonga, Swati, Venda,
Ethnic Groups: White (30%), African (60%) Middle Eastern/Arabic (1.5%), Indian (1%), Asian (1%) Other (6.5%)
Major Religions: Evangelicalism & Pentacostalism(60%), Lutheranism (20%), Irreligious (10%), Islam (1.5%), Hinduism (0.5%), Other (8%)
Government: (Unitary Presidential, Constitutional Republic)
Legislature: Upper House - Senate, Lower House - House of Assembly
GDP Per Capita: $18,643
GDP Total: $907 Billion
National Party (Right-Wing to Far-Right) - National Conservatism, Social Conservatism, Economic Nationalism, Christian Democracy, Right-Wing Populism, Anti-Immigration
A Party that has managed to get a niche out of the most ardent, conservative afrikaner population as well as popular amongst evangelical blacks and those in rural areas (where it has a plurarity over the next most popular parties). Other parties have accused the National Party of scarmongering and downright lying in order to retain power. The party does well in rural areas of the country as well as outer suburban areas and predominantly white areas in the cities.
United Party (Centre to Centre-Right) - Social Liberalism, Economic Liberalism, Neoliberalism, Liberal Conservatism, Third Way
Popular in the urban areas such as Johannesburg, Durban and Cape Town. The Party is popular amongst the educated middle class in the major urban centre's amongst all races. The party is pro big business with many in the international community favouring the party generally due to their more moderate stance.
Progressive-Federal Party (Centre-Left) - Social Democracy, Trade Unionism
The main left wing party which gets a lot of support in suburban areas as well along with the inner cities amongst young voters. The Party is the only out and out major mainstream left-wing party.
Inkatha Freedom Party (Big Tent) - Zulu Interests, Zulu Autonomism, Social Conservatism, Economic Socialism
A Fairly regional party, mainly based in the North of Natal.
Pan Africanist Congress (Left Wing to Far-Left) - Democratic Socialism, Anti-Imperlism, African Socialism, Left-Wing Populism
Rural League (Centre-Right to Right-Wing) - Social Conservatism, Agrarianism, Agrarian Conservatism.
Johannesburg - 8 Million
Cape Town - 6 Million
Durban - 3 Million
Pretoria - 2.25 Million
Port Elizabeth - 1.75 Million
Bloemfontein - 1.25 Million
19th century as well to be fair and maybe even the 18th to an extent. With the Boer War lost especially (and even before that) Madagascar is the crown colony and the main staging point for colonies such as Rhodesia, Katanga and Congo. Also there are resources on Madagascar as well (Coal)
The population has tripled since 1980 otl and just more sustained growth due to being a developed economy (at least relatively), hence smaller families etc.
I think you mean "van Suid Afrika" ('de' doesn't mean anything in Afrikaans, and while they have the similar 'die', it means 'the').
Well while we are on a roll I find the situation of the Congo interesting and I've been brewing some Ideas. I believe the British administration would cause Congo to become similar to a Mix of OTL South Africa with some Australian aspects. I think Congo is one of the top 3 developed economies in Africa. Due to Britain's more development-oriented approach to colonisation (at least compared to France and uh.. oh god... Belgium) the population of the congo would be significantly less due to decreased fertility rates. Even though most atrocities committed by the Belgians wouldn't happen there would still be disease that would kill people but the British may make a better effort to prevent the spread of the disease for their interest.
Republic of The Congo
Capital: Port Charlotte (OTL Pointe-Noire)
Largest City: Makoko-Livingstone City (OTL Brazzaville & Kinshasa)
Official Languages: English, Lingala, Kikongo, Swahili, Kituba, Luba-Kasai
Recognised Languages: French and hundreds of others
Ethnic Groups: Luba (17%) Mongo(16%) Kongo (15%) White-European (5%) Sanga(1%) Teke(1%) Others (45%)
Religion: Catholic (28%) Irreligious (26%) Protestant (18%) Other Christian (15%) Muslim (1%) Others and Indigenous Beliefs (12%)
Population: 55,612,000 (2015 Census) 60,669,735 (2019 Estimate)
Government: Federal, Parliamentary, Constitutional republic
Upper House: Legislative Assembly
Lower House: House of Representatives
GDP PPP per capita (2019 Estimate): $17,100
GDP PPP toal: $1,037,452,500
Currency: Congolese Pound
Socialist-Labour Party (Centre-Left to Left-Wing) 212/420 - Democratic Socialism, Social Justice, Anti-Corruption, Pro Internationalism
The SLP has been a major force in Congolese politics since the 1940s when economic growth in Congo soared while wealth inequalities also did. The SLP gained power for the first time in the 1950s and enacted sweeping economic reforms to eliminate the huge wealth inequalities in Congo from the former colonial landowners to the typical blue-collar worker. These reforms changed the economic structure of the country drastically, however, it largely succeeded and the Congolese economy started to grow again on the back of new consumer spending. In the new modern age, the party advocates heavily for workers interests still and the large economic reforms of the 1950s and 60s continue to build credit for the party.
Liberal Democratic Party (Centre-Right) 96/420 - Economic Conservatism, Liberal Conservatism
The Liberal Democrats have evolved from the main Centre-Left party of the early 20th century to the main Centre-Right party mainly pushed by the decisive Leftness of the SLP who they sought to oppose. Generally advocates for Consumer and Business interests. They have a reputation for bringing about economic growth but always try to slowly dismantle the Adoulaist economic system and get swept out of power as they did most recently in the 2009 election.
National Movement Party (Centre) 55/420 - Centrisim, Neoliberalisim, Egalitarianism
Historically known as the unofficial 'white interests' party but has since radically changed into a respectable party of the centre. Since the 1960s has developed a close friendship with the LDP and the two even narrowly voted down merging in the 1990s. Also known as heavily opposing the Republic Referendum in 1986 which removed all official ties to the UK and removed Queen Elizabeth II as the queen of Congo. Still retains a large white base but finally relented its bias toward White candidates in 1990.
Other Opposition & Crossbenches
Ecology Party (Left-Wing) 23/420 Green Politics, Social Justice
Typical Green Party. Founded in the 1970s out of concern for the Health of the Congo river and Rainforests.
Country Party (Right-Wing to Far-Right) 23/420 Christan Democratic, Agrarian
A party founded in the interests of farmers. Directly opposes the Ecology and Outdoors party on efforts to protect the Congolese Rainforest
Outdoors Party (Centre-Right) 7/420 - Conservation, Free Market Environmentalism
'Like Ecology but without the leftists' is the party's self-description. Believes in protecting wildlife areas and rivers to protect activities such as hunting and fishing. Currently gaining support from farmers causing a drop in Country Party Support.
Eggs & Bacon Party (Self Proclaimed 'Far-South', Reality Political Satire) 3/420 - Political Satirist, Populism
Founded for the 2017 election to challenge the constituency seat of National Front leader Shirley Banks. In a complete shock, the vote splitting in the constituency by the Country Party and other independents managed to split the vote of NF enough for the E&B party to win off the backs of SLP, LDP and NMP voters who were uninspired by their candidates. Since entering the House of Representatives the sole representative usually gives non-serious speeches when called upon but usually casts votes pretty evenly between the Opposition and Government.
National Front (Far-Right) 1/420 - White Nationalism,
Founded in 1967 by LA Member Robert Banks who had been elected in the previous election after being deported from the UK for conspiring to kill the leader of the SDP, Alice Bacon. He was denied to seek refuge in Aotearoa, Madagascar, New Wessex, America, and even India before being accepted into Congo. He immediately ran for election and preached his anti-black views to the White population of Congo who hadn't heard of an exclusively white interests candidate for over 50 years. On the back of harnessing anger, he was elected as an independent and Immediately formed the National Front taking advantage of a loophole that allowed sitting officeholder to found parties regardless of anti-discrimination laws. He would die in 1970 of a heart attack and His daughter Shirley immediately replaced him in his seat and as the leader. The now 97-year-old Shirley Banks still leads the party and sits in parliament on proportional representation after being ousted from her constituency seat.
Congo's Population is significantly less urbanised than other Developed Countries which means most of the population lives in no bigger than 50,000 people or fully rural.
1. Makoko-Livingstone (OTL Kinshasa-Brazzaville) 6.8 Million
2. Bakwanga 2.2 Million
3. Port Charlotte (OTL Pointe-Noire) 1.9 Million
4. Stanleyville (OTL Kisangani) 1.1 Million
5. Kasai City (OTL Kananga) 830 Thousand
Yeah that would be right, my bad, i'll change it.
Oh, that's interesting. Anything in particular allowing steve jobs to still be alive?
Separate names with a comma.