I can see Goring as he was an opportunistic sociopath rather then a fanatic, but Himmler? Even Hitler considered his Norse-paganism nonsense, he would send the Nazis spiraling to even further insanity, not less.
The Worst WWII Alternate History Cliche
- Thread starter MorphyVSFischer
- Start date
I can see Goring as he was an opportunistic sociopath rather then a fanatic, but Himmler? Even Hitler considered his Norse-paganism nonsense, he would send the Nazis spiraling to even further insanity, not less.
Right, so:
- The USA being instantly best at everything
- No amount of political or otherwise (this includes, but is not limited to: No Nazis, gangup on USSR, quitting after Sudetenland, etc) maneuvering allows the "Axis" to win the war
- The US always going full crusade mode (even if nobody bothers them...for example if the Japan keeps out of China and still buys oil)
- No german civil war upon late-war coup
- All wars are instant total wars (Sudentenland rescues are an offender here...)
- The WAllies will never make seperate peace with german coupists
- Any outcome will cause a cold war
- This cold war will mirror OTL cold war, with the US winning
- The WAllies will never turn on the USSR
- The WAllies will always be played by the same
A successful Operation Silver Fox seems to be a relatively common one in threads discussing the Finnish front. It is much more difficult to achieve than it looks on the map. Also Finns taking a more active role in the Siege of Leningrad. There were many specific political and military reasons why Finns didn't want to advance any further towards the city.
My biggest one would be that with Hitler dead the Nazis would somehow become all nice and normal, without the racism and inherent bad qualities that doomed it by the start of WW2. A lot of times, by which I mean at least two, such timelines authors were banned for racism and pro nazi statements. Thats a cliche in itself but more of a board one.
Perkeo
Banned
And even worse: The Reich forcing Allied and Sowjet surrender after one or two nuclear bombings. A hundred thousand deaths by nuclear bombs won't make millions stop fighting for literal survival.
... Any clichés about the Japanese? All I hear is Nazi, Nazi, Nazi?
What about that?
Imperial Japan was a more civilized version of the Nazi Germany because they had 500 years of Samurai tradition to fall back on.
Imperial Japan was a more civilized version of Nazi Germany, provided you weren't Chinese or Indonesian, or Korean.... Well, if you weren't white.
What about that?
Imperial Japan was a more civilized version of the Nazi Germany because they had 500 years of Samurai tradition to fall back on.
Imperial Japan was a more civilized version of Nazi Germany, provided you weren't Chinese or Indonesian, or Korean.... Well, if you weren't white.
The Soviet Union beat the Nazis without any WAllied assistance (lend lease, bombing, distractions, tying down forces, ect.).
There was no empire building, bureaucratic infighting, political struggles, nepotism, ect., (or it had no effect on the war) in Nazi Germany. At all.
There was no empire building, bureaucratic infighting, political struggles, nepotism, ect., (or it had no effect on the war) in Nazi Germany. At all.
longsword14
Banned
Strategic bombing was merely a nuisance. As if it did not demand a glut of resources that could have been used elsewhere or it did not badly hamper potential production.
Well, without a vastly earlier, radical point of departure - they can't.
Japan somehow beating the allies and keeping their empire. Still with their racist attitude to non-japanese asians.
Seriously, though, a Showa japanese empire would be even less sustainable than a nazi empire due to the massive population it'd have to deal with. If they instead took an anti-colonialist, "asia for the asians" attitude, they'd be much better off, but i doubt they would change their minds in such a way without massive ammounts of cultural and political butterflies.
Seriously, though, a Showa japanese empire would be even less sustainable than a nazi empire due to the massive population it'd have to deal with. If they instead took an anti-colonialist, "asia for the asians" attitude, they'd be much better off, but i doubt they would change their minds in such a way without massive ammounts of cultural and political butterflies.
The problem is it doesn't matter what the POD is. Even if its not fighting everyone at the same time
Even worse if it's in a scenario where they defeated the USSR and control the continent up to the Urals. The Nazi leadership didn't surrender when there were Soviet troops less than 2 miles away from Hitler's bunker. Why would they surrender after they've gained control of vast amounts of resources and strategic depth plus the lebensraum of Hitler's dreams?
In a not-strictly-for-entertainment/laughs timeline, restricted butterflies. One nation does stuff which they didn't do in the Original Timeline, and everyone else still follows the original timeline script and fights exactly the same battles with exactly the same resource commitments, casualties and results, regardless of whether that makes sense or not in the context of what the nation which has gone off its original timeline script is doing.
Greenville
Banned
Everyone thinks the Germans would've either tried to or would have taken over the world. They at best would never have been more than a regional power in Europe that mostly likely collapsed within two decades of victory in World War II. This is especially true if America had never intervened in the war, to begin with.
This is a problem with alternate history in general yes.
The blatant copycatting from OTL gets annoying even if the POD is such that the situation is totally different. Russia is always, always invaded on June 22, 1941, to the point I'd half expect it to be foretold as a day of doom in Russian folklore or something.
Last edited:
I should add, perhaps, that I don't have a problem with factors outside reasonable human control such as the cycle of seasons, times of tides and phases of the moon, the timing of the monsoon, hurricanes, droughts, volcanic eruptions, and earthquakes and so forth being unaffected by different decisions taken by humans. If, for some reason, in a WW2 timeline the Western Allies want to land on the Normandy coast to liberate France in the summer of 1944, for reasons of the moon, weather, and tides, June 6th may be when things kick off, if for some reason the equivalent earlier combination in May is a no-go for some reason. Sometimes the way the natural world runs dictates military operations are best to take place at particular times and dates...