The Worst WWII Alternate History Cliche

[galveston bay]

Well one can conceive, physically at least, the OTL KMT achieving a "victory" by exhausting the Japanese to the point where they simply give up and withdraw back into Northeast China. That's pretty much the upper-limit of what they could manage, but at least it's something that isn't ASB...

That doesn't seem at all unreasonable... probably the most likely outcome if Japan had managed to avoid expanding their enemies. They were pretty much limited to what they could reach logistically and had reached those limits with the final Ichi Go offensive being about as good as it was likely to ever get.

Although that is still very tough on the Chinese

 

[Seandineen]

Vlasov has no chance to succeed.

 

[Cryhavoc101]

HMS Hood gets sunk...by a golden BB...every...damn....time

 

[CalBear]

Here's few that haven't come up yet:

Japan invading Hawaii on December 7th.

Japan invading Hawaii after winning at Midway

Japanese carrier attacks on the U.S. West Coast.

The Reich surrendering after one or two nuclear bombings.

 

[ObssesedNuker]

The Reich surrendering after one or two nuclear bombings.

Well, if the bomb manages to kill Hitler that's reasonable. The problem is that hunting specific individuals with atomic weapons can be akin to hunting specific ants with an anvil...

 

[galveston bay]

Here's few that haven't come up yet:

Japan invading Hawaii on December 7th.

Japan invading Hawaii after winning at Midway

Japanese carrier attacks on the U.S. West Coast.

The Reich surrendering after one or two nuclear bombings.

It took a lot of butterflies for the Japanese to bomb Seattle in "Gorings Reich"

But then again we had a thread about the Japanese bypassing Hawaii and invading Baja California and the Japanese attacking the West Coast was in "Rising Sun Victorious" and one of Conroy's books (I forget which one)

Using every merchant ship they have, the Japanese might be able to transport a large enough force to invade Oahu. Assuming of course they don't do anything else like supplying their army in China or seize Southeast Asia. Along the way also inventing LVTs and LSTs. Not to mention forgoing the use of oil for anything else. So maybe a tad ASB.

 

[Japhy]

Vlasov has no chance to succeed.

I mean he failed hard enough IOTL and for that matter there's historical precedent (Arnold) for that failure it's hard to imagine him being able to raise any meaningfully large force of Pro-Nazi Russians.

 

[A Most Sovereign Lady]

It took a lot of butterflies for the Japanese to bomb Seattle in "Gorings Reich"

But then again we had a thread about the Japanese bypassing Hawaii and invading Baja California and the Japanese attacking the West Coast was in "Rising Sun Victorious" and one of Conroy's books (I forget which one)

Only Conroy book I know of that deals with Japan doing "well" is 1942 and it's more or less Hawaii, retake Hawaii, negotiated peace. The other, 1945, is just a farce.

 

[galveston bay]

Only Conroy book I know of that deals with Japan doing "well" is 1942 and it's more or less Hawaii, retake Hawaii, negotiated peace. The other, 1945, is just a farce.

It was his book "Rising Sun" where the Japanese won Midway and sank all 3 US carriers

 

[A Most Sovereign Lady]

It was his book "Rising Sun" where the Japanese won Midway and sank all 3 US carriers

... I have to find that one, now.

 

[galveston bay]

... I have to find that one, now.

the public library is my friend

 

[A Most Sovereign Lady]

the public library is my friend

Mine too.

 

[Whiteshore]

If the 3rd Reich doesn't exist, the country which starts the *Second World War is the Soviet Union.

 

[David Flin]

The refusal to discuss anything beyond a POD because the Allies always win the war anyways.

Although to be fair, once you've got the biggest industrial power in the world (USA), the most widespread Empire in the world with tentacles everywhere (UK), the most populous country in the world (China), the biggest power in Europe and one able to go toe-toe with Germany (USSR) on the same side, and on the other side you've got Germany, Italy, and Japan, all with major resources issues, it's hard work coming up with a plausible set of circumstances in which the Germany/Italy/Japan combination doesn't end up losing to the USA/USSR/UK/China combination.

 

[Gaius Julius Magnus]

Any other high ranking or notable Nazi figure (Goering, Himmler, etc) than Hitler would have led Germany to victory.

 

[TRH]

Any other high ranking or notable Nazi figure (Goering, Himmler, etc) than Hitler would have led Germany to victory.

I haven't seen Himmler be used as an improvement over Hitler. Now, if Heydrich was pulling his strings, then things would get difficult.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Although to be fair, once you've got the biggest industrial power in the world (USA), the most widespread Empire in the world with tentacles everywhere (UK), the most populous country in the world (China), the biggest power in Europe and one able to go toe-toe with Germany (USSR) on the same side, and on the other side you've got Germany, Italy, and Japan, all with major resources issues, it's hard work coming up with a plausible set of circumstances in which the Germany/Italy/Japan combination doesn't end up losing to the USA/USSR/UK/China combination.

That doesn't mean you can't discuss the alternate campaigns or options open to the belligerents before people stick up their noses and declare "It doesn't matter, the war is over, the Allies win" when there's over a year to go.

 

[ajdb0614]

In the event of American neutrality due to no Pearl Harbor, the Soviet Union would singlehandedly wear down and then later defeat the Wehrmacht, occupy all of Germany, "liberate" the entirity of Nazi occupied Europe, and after the war some sort of mega Warsaw Pact/Socialist European Union. Basically a Communist dystopia world.

...

Alternatively Moscow falls in '42, Rommel crosses the Suez, Britain sues for peace and Europe is left at the mercy of the Third Reich. Basically a Nazi dystopia world.

 

[Hood]

HMS Hood gets sunk...by a golden BB...every...damn....time

Beat me to it mate.
It pissed me off big time.
Looking through a TL, wait until May 1941, Only to see those dreaded words "Hood sunk by Bismarck"
It's like the Denmark Strait is completely unaffected by the other (sometimes massive) differences from OTL.
Rant over.

 

[longsword14]

Beat me to it mate.
It pissed me off big time.
Looking through a TL, wait until May 1941, Only to see those dreaded words "Hood sunk by Bismarck"
It's like the Denmark Strait is completely unaffected by the other (sometimes massive) differences from OTL.
Rant over.

Checks username...