The worst cold war tl cliches

orwelans II

Banned
Why did you see the need to write two full paragraphs in response to a joke
Your joke was seemingly dismissing the need to argue and respond to something one might disagree with as it might lead to these sorts of arguments.

I don't like these ideological arguments any more than you do and I also dislike the fact that threads like these are bound to get caught up in them. I first posted in this thread to point out some cliches in writing of Cold War timelines as the OP asked for, Sorairo then brought in far right propaganda points.

I just recently started feeling that these arguments are needed to help uninformed people see through this bullshit. Most people would see his claim of 100-250 k being a median estimate of Yugoslav regime's deaths and be more easily persuaded that the fascist who opposed it weren't so bad.
 
You know what Cold War cliche I hate?

Ideological arguments in every single thread.

As beautifully represented by two volunteers above.

*Looks into a thread about Cold War cliches*

*Sees it has turned into a live action roleplay of Cold War attitudes and ideological arguments*

Kekkonen1.jpg


(Translates roughly as "fucking duffers")
 
Last edited:
Your joke was seemingly dismissing the need to argue and respond to something one might disagree with as it might lead to these sorts of arguments.
Outside of that being a joke: I am dismissive of the need to argue about Cold War politics or politics in general in AH threads, but because of personal reasons.
 

longsword14

Banned
For a not feasible economic system 70 years are quite good, don't you think?

Especially if you consider that the laissez-faire capitalism of the Austrian School lead straight to the Great Depression of 1929.
:rolleyes:
Countries can have a completely shit economy yet not collapse, that is hardly a measure of success.
Communists really are the stupidest bunch on earth.
 
:rolleyes:
Countries can have a completely shit economy yet not collapse, that is hardly a measure of success.
Communists really are the stupidest bunch on earth.

A certain level of economic success is required for any nation to become and stay the second superpower on earth.

Also, there were many very intelligent socialist and communist in history, and given the great number of leftists on ah.com, your statement might be perceived by some as a personal insult.
 

longsword14

Banned
number of leftists on ah.com, your statement might be perceived by some as a personal insult.
Just saying how it is.
Then those leftists need to go and read a macroeconomics textbook. Socialism in itself is a great buzz word that means different things to different people, but to most of the posters tilted towards the "left" it means the usual with a large welfare state.
There is not even a point talking to a communist, for it takes impressive delusion to get to the point where you are willing to believe it.
I will stop now.
 
Just saying how it is.
Then those leftists need to go and read a macroeconomics textbook. Socialism in itself is a great buzz word that means different things to different people, but to most of the posters tilted towards the "left" it means the usual with a large welfare state.
There is not even a point talking to a communist, for it takes impressive delusion to get to the point where you are willing to believe it.
I will stop now.

You'd better considering you've already done your damndest to get this thread either locked or sent to Chat. I'm as much an ideologue as anyone else on the board, but I know how to leave my personal politics at the door during a history discussion.
 
It's a good thing nobody has mentioned turning the USSR into a North Korea type state yet, because it's already getting hot and tense in here.
 
I will say that the US turning into a right-wing dystopia is also getting a little repetitive around here.
 
I should have known when I made this thread it would degenerate into a fight over ideology.

Which I guess is a Cold War cliche in and of itself. That people on either side of the ideological divide cannot have reasoned discussions, or even get on for any length of time with opponents. Despite the fact that the active players generally had more in common with each other than they had with their bosses, and even in interesting times and places came to a working understanding.
 

Anderman

Donor
For a not feasible economic system 70 years are quite good, don't you think?

Especially if you consider that the laissez-faire capitalism of the Austrian School lead straight to the Great Depression of 1929.

No i don´t think it is quite good. The Soviet Union was a socialistic country but the rest of the world was not. And that was keeping the system running.

And for the Great Depression the progressive area is a myth and there was no Federal Reserve etc (btw the Austrian School oppeses central banking).
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
I had something interesting to say (modest is I), then I read through the dispute that reminded me of two bald men fighting over a comb.
Can the OP request this thread be moved to Chat?
 
:rolleyes:
Countries can have a completely shit economy yet not collapse, that is hardly a measure of success.
Communists really are the stupidest bunch on earth.
Please, tell me more about how insulting an entire group of people is as fantastic of a way to debate as you seem to think it is. This statement is highly offensive to myself and many others of this board who, while they are Socialist, Communist, etc, don't consider themselves to be, as you put it, "the stupidest bunch on Earth". Now, rather than point out the multiple grammatical errors in a post that is meant to criticize people's intelligence, I will instead ask you to please stop it before a mod has to come into this thread.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Could we please not devolve this into a slapfight? Lest the mods come in?
But again, a question as lenient of manichaeism as "which economic system is unviable" is prone to statements like yours.

You called?
:rolleyes:
Countries can have a completely shit economy yet not collapse, that is hardly a measure of success.
Communists really are the stupidest bunch on earth.

Keep this in Chat, thank you.
 

Nebogipfel

Monthly Donor
A general observation about cold war TLs - is it possible that we have an age problem here ? My impression is that many here were born after the end of the cold war and see the whole thing filtered through thriller novels of doubtful accuracy (like Clancy et al.)
 
A general observation about cold war TLs - is it possible that we have an age problem here ? My impression is that many here were born after the end of the cold war and see the whole thing filtered through thriller novels of doubtful accuracy (like Clancy et al.)
I'd have thought it was the opposite older people at least in the US viewed it through the Clancy lense of wonderful Murica defeating the evil commies, while the younger generation if not sympathetic to the soviet union is more "the US did bad things too".
 
A general observation about cold war TLs - is it possible that we have an age problem here ? My impression is that many here were born after the end of the cold war and see the whole thing filtered through thriller novels of doubtful accuracy (like Clancy et al.)
RE: Clancy specifically, I have to chalk up to him my initial optimism in NATO's ability in a conventional war, and juvenile concentration on technology and firepower for 'silver bullet' solutions to strategic problems.
 
Top