The World without the Nazis

But what if France had gone Facist insteed of Germany?

I think the more likely move would be monarchist--return the Third Republic to its monarchical roots.

In any case, French Fascism wouldn't be hardcore like the Nazis or anything like it, because the Fascist movement (and it would have a different name) would not have massive popular support. The French Fascists, like the Nationalists in Spain, would have to basically ally with Conservatives to survive politically. Now this is a far-right France, but its also one that like Poland and Hungary, is probably uninterested in starting a general war.

Even a Far-Right France would probably want to retain its alliance with the United Kingdom--I suspect the main changes would be domestic, not diplomatic. France and Italy would still have trouble getting along, and short of France ALSO being imperialistic rather than reclusive, I don't think it changes the course of history massively--The French Army might be larger and have more funding, but France would still have a battered cultural psyche--they crumbled in OTL WW2 despite superior numbers, if this trend is met again they will simply have a larger crumbling.
 
one trivial thing I would like to point out, without Nazi Germany world sociey wouldn't have a living metaphor for evil. Hollywood wouldn't have it's default whipping boy/evil bad guys. Where would Indiana Jones be? What would the Empire from Star Wars be based off of? What of Casablanca? Really trivial in the grand scheme but something to be considered nonetheless.
 

hinotoin

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Well what Germany had was the capability to rebound after the First World War. Well they will still try to get a small army together and bulid up their defense. German politics would still have an army that has some power within the German government. The only problem I see is outside a de nazified Germany.

What will happen to the rest of the world ?
 
Without the Nazis, countries will build their military-industrial complexes. Eventually, tensions would build and war would break out. Unfortunately, it is easy to rationalize a later version of WWII starting with atomic/nuclear bombs, rather than ending with them. It is very possible that a delayed war would have killed more Jews, more Germans, more Russians and more Americans than the war an holocaust in OTL.

Without the nazis the push for the atomic bomb wouldn't happen. There is no real reason for any country to invest the money in nuclear engineering. nuclear physics would remain in the theoretical and experimental stage for much longer. Eventually interest in fission power reactors would arise but when investors realized what kind of money they would have in an enrichment plant and waste disposal* before they even began to invest in power plants there would be a strong tendency to just go dig some more coal.

I'm not saying it would never happen but it would be much slower, maybe 50 to 60 years before the first plant came on line.

*I was involved in a cleanup project for the hanford nuclear reservation and had a chance to talk to a phisicist that had worked there since the late 40,s and asked why they let the place get so badly contaminated over the years. His answer was that they always knew that they were a first strike target and why worry about a few spills now and then when the soviets were going to turn the whole area into a radioactive glass hole.

Sorta makes sense in the context.
 
I wouldn't say that. Without the second world war, the nuclear arms race between Russia and the US might have started sooner, the Red Alert scenario.

What would the Soviet Union do? Expand itself beyond its border, creating sattelite states, as in OTL? How would they do that without OTL's WW2; could there perhaps be an equivalent war?
 
racism doesn't becomes discredited by their genocide and general evil, nor do corporatism, anti-Feminism and other reactionary trends.
Corporatism may eventually fall victim to free market model (although, for all intents and purposes, all recent success stories such as Korea and Japan shout that "corporatism is working" in our face) .
Colonial empires will hold out longer without a war, strengthening this perception
Are you sure that there would be no major war? Versailles was pretty unstable and humiliating for Germany, so all kinds of revanchist movements getting to power in Germany is possible.

There will be no Israel, and anti-semitism will be strong in all countries with large Jewish populations. The British being tired of keeping Jews out of Palestine, might lead to some strategically insignificant area without a too big or resistant population being opened to Jewish setling. The global Jewish community will be divided between the "reformists" accepting an Israel outside Israel and those only accepting only the original place. Jews might very well be this TL's global terrorists.
I'm not sure about this European "no Israel" wet dream. After all, Israel attracted half mil. of Jews before WWI and 1st round of talks between Britons, Sokhnut and Mufti about partition was in 1937, if Golda Meir is to be believed. Extrapolating this trend for 10 more years (and taking into account that Anti-Semitism will likely get much stronger in Zionist hotbed Poland without Nazi scare, as "judeo-communism" will be their only scare), it's not that hard to forecast 1-1.5 mlns of Jews living in Palestine by the time when British colonial empire will start to fall.
 
Corporatism may eventually fall victim to free market model (although, for all intents and purposes, all recent success stories such as Korea and Japan shout that "corporatism is working" in our face) .

There's that possibility, of course. What I really meant was more like, fascism and its economic policies doesn't get all of OTL's badwill.

Are you sure that there would be no major war? Versailles was pretty unstable and humiliating for Germany, so all kinds of revanchist movements getting to power in Germany is possible.

IMHO, not a WW2-style World War, unless it's against the Soviets. A revanchist German movement would probably be happy with grabbing some land from Poland and just maybe France.

I'm not sure about this European "no Israel" wet dream. After all, Israel attracted half mil. of Jews before WWI and 1st round of talks between Britons, Sokhnut and Mufti about partition was in 1937, if Golda Meir is to be believed. Extrapolating this trend for 10 more years (and taking into account that Anti-Semitism will likely get much stronger in Zionist hotbed Poland without Nazi scare, as "judeo-communism" will be their only scare), it's not that hard to forecast 1-1.5 mlns of Jews living in Palestine by the time when British colonial empire will start to fall.

Israel was coming alright, but it might've taken longer to form ITTL.
 
There's that possibility, of course. What I really meant was more like, fascism and its economic policies doesn't get all of OTL's badwill.
And I meant that fascism's economic policies did not get much of bad publicity IOTL, except some cases when one side in some debates needed to badmouth opponents. Even Great Britain adopted corporatism post-WWII to very large extent.

IMHO, not a WW2-style World War, unless it's against the Soviets. A revanchist German movement would probably be happy with grabbing some land from Poland and just maybe France.
You need to have fanatics on both sides to fight WWII as it had been fought between Elbe and Volga. However, Western Front-style WWII is quite possible and pretty bad in itself.

Israel was coming alright, but it might've taken longer to form ITTL.
Yes, as everything esle in breakup of colonial empires would happen later ITTL. But I don't believe that Brits would keep "whites" under yoke forever (it does not conform with British views of the empire) and Jews were "whites" for them. BTW, this turn of events can be even sadder for Arabs with AH equivalent of South African apartheid becoming policy of Dominion Judea and Samaria.
 
Evil Nazis And Fascists are replaced by Evil Communist And Marxists, is my best bet.
Perhaps Chinese remain the stereotypical pulp villains, a la Fu-Manchu. Possiby Communists/Anarchists as well, and there's always room for some menacing Central/Eastern Europeans- some say that Vandrika in Hitchcock's The Lady Vanishes is Nazi Germany, but I see it as more like Bulgaria or Yugoslavia.
 
Villains are impossible to predict. Who would have thought, forty or fifty years ago (or more), that Islamic extremist terrorists would be the world's bad guys today?
 
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29th century history can be divided by its four major conflicts: The Great War 1914-1918, The Lesser War 1931-1939, The Pacific War 1941-1943 and the so called Quiet War from 1940-1995.

The Lesser War was so named because despite being twice as long as the Great War it for the most a Germanic civil war. The Cause of which can be trace to the Treaty of Versailles that had ended the Great War. The harsh terms for reparation for the lossing Entente powers did not bode well for Germany in particular. For twelve years the ever changing governments struggled with pays while the economy spiraled out of control. The final straw came when Communist miners in Posen staged a revolt. Similar revolts back by Stalins soviet agent provoceurs sprung up in the various German states. For three years the majors powers of Europe (France & Britian) looked on while first Germany and then also Austria tore themself apart with bloody infighting.

While the League of Nation attempted bring the various parties to the table for peace talks it was of hard to tell from day to day who or where the various leaders were. Finally in 1935 it was the Italians under Mussolini who sent troops into Austria allegedly to help stem the flow of refugees from there. This was quickly followed by the French army that had massed in Lorraine crossing over to "stablise regions bordering on France". Not to be out done the British suddenly remembered their historical ties with Hanover and Saxon-Coburg. The battlecruiser HMS Hood also made a sudden surprise appearance in Hamburg harbour just as a "Polish freighter" was about to unload a cache of illegal arms.
 
Who would have thought, forty or fifty years ago (or more), that Islamic extremist terrorists would be the world's bad guys today?
A lot of independent analysts did. Unfortunately, darkest shades of Islamic fundamentalism were only force willing to fight pink westernizator regimes in Islamic world, so in early 1950s they became ultimate American allies for the next 30 years and all early warnings about potential pitfalls of arming and supporting them had been completely silenced by the Cold War propaganda machine. Al-Quaeda is the proof of "you reap what you sow".
 
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