The World without the British Empire

Ryan

Donor
what would the world look like if England (and Scotland and Ireland whilst we're at it) had never created a colonial empire?

I'm mainly curious about India and Africa but ideas on the rest of the world are more than welcome.

bonus if you can provide maps!
 
Spanish or French would be the worlds Lingua Franca, and we wouldnt have Doctor Who...if that doesnt make you depressed, i dunno what will
 
what would the world look like if England (and Scotland and Ireland whilst we're at it) had never created a colonial empire?

I'm mainly curious about India and Africa but ideas on the rest of the world are more than welcome.

bonus if you can provide maps!
Welcome to Terra Francia, I'm awful at maps so perhaps someone else will produce it but world in 19th century as follows
Canada Louisiana and the OTL thirteen Colonies French,France may or may not have taken Texas to California from Spain/Mexico it depends on your point of view.
Sub Saharan Africa is basically French except Angola and Mozambique are Portuguese, Cape Colony and the Boer Republics at least loosely tied to the Netherlands. Although France may have taken the Cape Colony as needed for India before the Suez Canal
In North Africa Eqypt is run by France like the British did and they build the Suez Canal.Morroco split between France and Spain. Algeria French, Tunisia and Libya? Either still Turkish or Italy has tried to muscle in.(after 1860)

Australia French, New Zealand may well be Dutch
Then there is the Jewel in the French Imperium India
But what stopped Britain from building an empire?
 
How about this happens beause of increased conflict between England and Scotland, Scotland supported by a stronger France. Maybe Ireland plays a role in these wars. Also, maybe England is divided between Protestants, Catholics, and Welsh that make expansion impossible because of division and semi-frequent civil war.

I guess all of South America would be roughly as OTL, aside from British Guiana. Maybe, without the Anglo-Dutch Wars, the Dutch could have retained their Brazilian colony, possibly getting the entire Amazon basin.

In North America, maybe French companys could have gained control of the entire north, while the Spanish expanded into the South. Also, without England, maybe the New Amsterdam and New Sweden colonys could have expanded, possibly becoming major states.

Africa, well, with a POD so early, there are limitless opportunities for what happens there.

Overall, I dont think the role of England is easily filled, although the Dutch could become the major worldwide colonial power.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
General concepts of parliamentary democracy and free market economics would not be spread across the world as they were IOTL. Association football wouldn't be spread, either.
 
I actually have a POD for you, Cromwell fails, the king is in control, makes a stupid decision, suddenly the french take over the Americas, and the brits can't fight back.
 
I'm no expert, but from the sounds of it, the easiest way to prevent the English from creating an overseas empire would be to prevent Protestantism in England. When England went Protestant, that put it at odds with Spain, and they raided Spanish colonies and fleets. I assume that the wealth taken from these ships showed the potential profitability of overseas colonies. Also, apparently this was spurred by the West Country Men, who were largely responsible for early English colonisation of America, and they had learned the craft of colonisation from settling Protestants in Ireland. If you prevent Protestantism in England, you prevent that, since both England and Ireland were Catholic, you wouldn't have the English feel a need to establish control by displacing Catholics. If England stayed Catholic, you might even be able to get them to intervene in the Thirty Years War, creating a precedent for renewed English activity on the continent, further weakening the faction that would push for colonisation.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
I'm no expert, but from the sounds of it, the easiest way to prevent the English from creating an overseas empire would be to prevent Protestantism in England. When England went Protestant, that put it at odds with Spain, and they raided Spanish colonies and fleets. I assume that the wealth taken from these ships showed the potential profitability of overseas colonies. Also, apparently this was spurred by the West Country Men, who were largely responsible for early English colonisation of America, and they had learned the craft of colonisation from settling Protestants in Ireland. If you prevent Protestantism in England, you prevent that, since both England and Ireland were Catholic, you wouldn't have the English feel a need to establish control by displacing Catholics. If England stayed Catholic, you might even be able to get them to intervene in the Thirty Years War, creating a precedent for renewed English activity on the continent, further weakening the faction that would push for colonisation.

Interesting point. Just have Catherine of Aragon give birth to a son, then.
 

Ryan

Donor
Maps

does anyone have any maps or ideas about maps? I'm curious as to what they'd look like.
 

RavenMM

Banned
I'm mainly interested in what India and Africa would likely look like without British colonialism.

It really depends on why they don't colonise. If they instead slug it out with the french all the time, I don't think France would have the money to go on a colonisation spree for example.
 
I'm mainly interested in what India and Africa would likely look like without British colonialism.
The question is what would it mean for the rest of Europe. Would it butterfly away the rise of the Netherlands (possible with a catholic England)? How would Germany look like? Without the Dutch and English East India Company would India actualy be colonised?

Basicly without a concrete timeline it is impossible to say how the world looks like without a British Empire. Maybe colonialism is limited to a couple of Portuguese and French tradingposts in India, indonesia and North America, while Spain controls the rest of America and noone bothers with Africa.

Maybe India gets divided by France, Portugal and the Netherlands. Maybe France manages to gain all of India. maybe the Indians manage to get rid of the Europeans and gain colonies of their own.

Maybe Germany unites and get large swats of Africa. Maybe Germany remains divided and all those countries gain part of Africa. Maybe noone cares enough about Africa to do anything with it.

Simply put, it is impossible to say how the world looks like without the British Empire. You need a clear POD and brainstorm from there and after a couple of decades it becomes guess work. The butterflies would be too numerous, the situation in the world becomes too complex to make a reliable statement and everything becomes the domain of educated fantasy.

That is why you need to make a timeline. To show us how you think the world develops.
 
French India would be very different from the British Raj. France, as a continental power would be more distracted and less able to focus on colonial affairs. That with the traditional French style of colonisation and empire building leads me to believe that a French India would be more protectorates and less direct rule than Britain used. Possibly a surviving native Indian state around Delhi with Portugal and Holland have a few pieces.
 
I could see India as a mesh of colonial ports for a few different European powers, with them using native states in a series of proxy wars.
 

Ryan

Donor
does anyone have any random maps with no British colonization? it'd be fun to see what people think would happen.
 
And no doubt New Zealands national sport would be soccer and not rugby he states after good swig of whisky and a shudder.
 
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