The World of Turtledove's In the Presence of Mine Enemies

Fair enough re: Rockwell (though I think he still very likely would develop Nazi sympathies and I thought he was Virginian).

Actually another dark horse option who was born pre-departure has come to my mind: Lyndon LaRouche. Now he began in OTL as a far-left figure but his brand of far-leftism over time horseshoed its way towards far-right sentiments and given he jumped left amidst the Cold War OTL I could see him instead embracing American Nazism rather than Trotskyism on grounds of contrarianism plus his anti-British beliefs and anti-Semitic leanings. I could easily see him ITTL joining the German-American Bund or a similar group in lieu of the radical leftist ones he joined OTL. Especially since the Axis victory could discredit Marxism to a 20-something LaRouche and that timeframe was when he developed his beliefs.
Still reading through the thread, but I think that's unlikely. LaRouche's OTL political radicalization began during his service as a medic in the US Army in India IOTL--the birth of his anti-British leanings (for obvious reasons), and also his turn to Communism. Without American entry to the war, LaRouche might not be exposed to the right ideas at the right time, so he remains basically a Quaker pacifist as he was in his youth. I just don't see a guy who already had anti-imperialist sympathies embracing the Reich. His peculiar philosophical interests might still be there, but everything about them indicates that he would be completely hostile to Nazi ideology.

Most likely outcome for him ITTL: low-level intelligentsia, possibly a local college philosophy professor, who gets offed in the general purge of intellectuals when the US is conquered, particularly because of some papers he writes in the 1960s condemning Hitlerism as an expression of Aristotelian anti-humanism.

More heroic outcome: organizes a local branch of the US resistance in the industrial northeast, killed by the Gestapo in the 1970s.

More villainous outcome: Collaborator who sells out his colleagues and ends up garroted by the American resistance in the 1970s.
 
Interesting thread Eckener. I'm all for any thread that fills in the gaps for any of the alternate worlds of Harry Turtledove, even this hellishly dystopian world. Eckener, I'm planning on reading your sequel story later.

In the mean time, heres a map I made of the world of In the Presence of Mine Enemies in 2010. Comments and feedback are welcome.
Love the map! Hope you enjoy the sequel as it stands so far. 😊
Thoughts on Alaska below. Other thoughts: Portugal....i'm not sure that it was ever mentioned in the book. See that colony in Africa separating Reich territory from South Africa. Also....anyone have thoughts on Ireland? Fascist government? Something similar to Switzerland...essentially a closed state pseudo Democracy that's in survival mode?

So Russian Alaska in the 21st century -whats the story there ?
that's Japanese Alaska ;) i don't recall it ever being mentioned in the book, but i'd guess that it would have something to do with the Aleutian Islands Campaign--maybe "reparations" by the puppet government in Omaha? unless the relevant POD for the whole thing was early enough that the Japanese won up there. or maybe a trade between Germany and Japan?
According the the Turtledove wiki, Japan was at war with Germany against the USA and Canada during WWIII in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Thus, the Empire of Japan certainly would have gained some land for their efforts.
I could totally see Alaska being treated as a spoil of war, just like Hawaii. I think I wrote in my write up that Japan was also given a major military base at San Diego. I see no problem with Japan taking Alaska as well.

Well,I’m off to South America. Who’s with me?
It's only marginally better there. Yes, better than anywhere in Reich or the Empire of Japan, but those are low bars.
 
What do you think life is like for the average joe in this universe in both the Empire and the Reich?
I would say a big part of it depends on how much of a winner or loser you are based on how Aryan you are perceived as being, Those viewed as the most Aryan have much easier lives-which ironically sometimes means hidden Jews. As long as they stay hidden and look Aryan they are often ok for many years,,,
 
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So another aspect of this world for a long while is continuing resurgence of royal lines ?
I mean, not really? I think what happened or was implied in the book is that monarchies were retained by countries instead of abolished after WWII (like in Italy, for example). I don't really feel like there was a "resurgence" so much as there was a "retention."

What do you think life is like for the average joe in this universe in both the Empire and the Reich?
I would say a big part of it depends on how much of a winner or loser you are based on how Aryan you are perceived as being, Those viewed as the most Aryan have much easier lives-which ironically sometimes means hidden Jews. As long as they stay hidden and look Aryan they are often ok for many years,,,
I more or less agree with Max here. The average Aryan-Joe probably has a decent life. I think that the original book bares that out for those growing up in Berlin. Day-to-day life has been influenced (a lot) by the Nazi propaganda, but life goes on, and it's "okay." Obviously, if you AREN'T Aryan....it's not pretty.
 
I would say a big part of it depends on how much of a winner or loser you are based on how Aryan you are perceived as being, Those viewed as the most Aryan have much easier lives-which ironically sometimes means hidden Jews. As long as they stay hidden and look Aryan they are often ok for many years,,,
I'm more interested in how life is in the Imperial Japanese Empire. What is it like compared to life in the Reich? I mean, I hate to belabor this. But I do not really care for how little attention Imperial Japan gets in Alternate History Axis Victory scenarios in comparison to the Nazis.
 
I'm more interested in how life is in the Imperial Japanese Empire. What is it like compared to life in the Reich? I mean, I hate to belabor this. But I do not really care for how little attention Imperial Japan gets in Alternate History Axis Victory scenarios in comparison to the Nazis.
It seems to me there would be some similarities between the way life is in the Japanese Empire and the Reich. The Japanese certainly considered themselves racially superior to many groups of people n the world and in their sphere of influence. Plus.... you had the Germanns conveying honorary Aryan status on them. So the more Japanese you were the better for you ? Relations between the Reich and Japan seem better in this world than in the Man in the High Castle Universe also.
 
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It seems to me there would be some similarities between the way life is in the Japanese Empire and the Reich. The Japanese certainly considered themselves racially superior to many groups of people n the world and in their sphere of influence. Plus.... you had the Germanns conveying honorary Aryan status on them. So the more Japanese you were the better for you ? Relations between the Reich and Japan seem better in this world than in the Man in the High Castle Universe also.
Per Turtledove’s tendency toward Parallelism, Japan might be viewed as a TTL *China—the psychotic militarists of old have gradually lost power to a new wave of technocrats and business-oriented men more interested in turning the empire into a productive and profitable unit.

The average Chinese peasant is probably not well-off for most of the twentieth century (being subject to conscription for forced labor), but the turn toward a more high-tech economy (and the need for such weapons against the Reich) will gradually lead Japan to consider the need for the intellectual and financial contributions of its subjects. In other words, things start to get a lot better whenever the Imperial Japanese equivalent of Deng Xiaoping takes over. Education (naturally in Japanese alone), programs of road- and railroad- building, encouragement of businesses.
 
Just another anti- American book by Turtledove. So all whites become rapid haters of anyone not white. Sorry this entire thread is BS
 
I'm more interested in how life is in the Imperial Japanese Empire. What is it like compared to life in the Reich? I mean, I hate to belabor this. But I do not really care for how little attention Imperial Japan gets in Alternate History Axis Victory scenarios in comparison to the Nazis.
I would like to see a companion book from the point of view of the Japanese Empire set in this world.
Ah! Yeah, I felt like that was really underdone (well really, almost non-existent) in Turtledove's original book. Granted, the story he was telling was not one of his globe-spanning sagas, but it would still be interesting to see things from the Japanese perspective, which I agree with you isn't done enough in Axis Victory scenarios. I feel like even Man in the High Castle (series) undercut that. IIRC, we never actually see Japan itself, just the Japanese Pacific States, whereas we do see Berlin.

If I can, I will try to work in something.

It seems to me there would be some similarities between the way life is in the Japanese Empire and the Reich. The Japanese certainly considered themselves racially superior to many groups of people n the world and in their sphere of influence. Plus.... you had the Germanns conveying honorary Aryan status on them. So the more Japanese you were the better for you ? Relations between the Reich and Japan seem better in this world than in the Man in the High Castle Universe also.
Per Turtledove’s tendency toward Parallelism, Japan might be viewed as a TTL *China—the psychotic militarists of old have gradually lost power to a new wave of technocrats and business-oriented men more interested in turning the empire into a productive and profitable unit.

The average Chinese peasant is probably not well-off for most of the twentieth century (being subject to conscription for forced labor), but the turn toward a more high-tech economy (and the need for such weapons against the Reich) will gradually lead Japan to consider the need for the intellectual and financial contributions of its subjects. In other words, things start to get a lot better whenever the Imperial Japanese equivalent of Deng Xiaoping takes over. Education (naturally in Japanese alone), programs of road- and railroad- building, encouragement of businesses.
I thought imperial Japan didn’t put as much stock in a race and heritage as Germany during World War II
I am no expert, to be sure, but from what I recall from what I've read, while Imperial Japan wasn't as obsessed with race and ancestry as Hitler's Germany, it did matter, in the sense that the Japanese saw themselves as superior to everyone else in a very general sense.

I do feel like there would be a similar structure to the Reich in that, for Japanese citizens, especially those in the Home Islands, things would be great overall, and I feel like the state would be less noticeable in the foreground than what occurs in Germany. Now, as was pointed out, for non-Japanese, things wouldn't be as great, and it would depend on which group you were as to just how not great it was: I'd imagine it would be a toss-up between the Chinese and the Koreans as to who got the shortest straw.

A popularbook is ; The Spare Wasnt There- The reign of Margaret I 1975=2001
Is this supposed to be an ITTL title?

Consider that one group that would also be "closeted"would be the LGBTQ community. Consider that many leaders of the Christian fundamentalist extreme have been exposed as gay or bisexual:
Oh for sure, this would fully be a thing.

Just another anti- American book by Turtledove. So all whites become rapid haters of anyone not white. Sorry this entire thread is BS
You obviously haven't read the book. America isn't the focus, at all. There are no real American characters to speak of, nor does any of the story happen in the United States. The original story doesn't bear out the idea that "all whites become rabid haters of anyone not white," and that's not the implication of this thread either. (And for that matter, as someone who's read a majority of his works, "anti-American" isn't really his shtick. Anti-white supremacists, and maybe more generally anti-Confederate, sure). Why don't you go troll somewhere else.
 
. I feel like even Man in the High Castle (series) undercut that. IIRC, we never actually see Japan itself, just the Japanese Pacific States, whereas we do see Berlin.
Which is Ironic, considering in the original book we never see what life is like in the German controlled side of America or Berlin. The story is confined almost entirely to the Pacific Occupied States. We only get hushed whispers from certain characters about the worst part of the Nazis regime.
 
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