The World of Ross Perot: The Official "A Giant Sucking Sound" FanFic Thread

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After a quick scan and from memory:
- to 1996 : Eltsine, loses election in the aftermath of Nagoya
- 1996 - ? : Zhirinovsky, first allies with Communists before purging them, is mentioned as still being president by 2005 when Vladimir Aryutinian attempts to assassinate him (p63)
- ?
- 2012 - today : Alexander Lebed, elected against Yavlinski (p35), set to attend Ross Perot's funeral (p71)
 
Also, I see there is a number of photos gone and typos that went wrong for some posts.
Maybe we could have the TL posts fixed (along with some wikiboxes for elections and particular events) before posting them to Finished Timelines section with threadmarks, wouldn't it be great?
 
Lead up to Cuba
“With the treat of Islamic terrorism having been largely defeated by the coalition of Western democracies and Arab reformists in the war under President Richards, new threats on the world stage stood out. The most obvious of these were Russia and North Korea, the former raising alarms for its blatant aspirations of a new Slavic supremacist empire and ethnic cleansing campaigns of minority populations. Meanwhile, the latter was a rogue state that threatened the stabilized order of all the Pacific with their emerging nuclear weapons program. Then there was Cuba. The thorn in the New World for every president since Eisenhower. Sure, they hadn’t done much aggressive against the good old USA, but paranoia that fell asleep forty years prior had reawaken. While not public enemy number one, the communist island nation was vastly unpopular and certainly the easiest anti-American pariah to take out. After the rise of Raul Castro following his older brother’s death, the Cuban issue was placed back into the spotlight, with reports that the new dictator was pursuing an increasingly aggressive and totalitarian rule. The support for regime change came from a united coalition of conservatives and moderates, the vast majority of them Republicans and Freedomites. Soon the prospect of war was talked of nonstop on both the primetime news and in the halls of congress…” -Excerpt from Northern Titan: Anglo-American Policy Towards Latin America In the Early 21th Century


“This is completely justified by the Monroe Doctrine. In fact, it’s our God-given duty to rid the Western Hemisphere of the plague of communism.” -Senator Fob James (R)


“Raul Castro calls Trump’s push for Cuban invasion neo-imperialism” -The Sunday Times (UK)


“I must say that I’m disappointed in the President. I heavily campaigned for him believing him to represent the interests of the Freedom Party’s base. Yet he has stocked his cabinet with neocons such as Rudy Giuliani, Joseph Lieberman, and Tom Ridge, and now he is more interested in alienating the international community with these inane calls for war. Should a vote come to the senate, I will vote no. I encourage my fellow Freedomites to do the same.” -Senator Kent Conrad (F)


“Unlike other foreign interventions that have occurred over the past two decades, there is no concrete evidence that an invasion of Cuba is anything urgent. The evidence presented by the Trump administration to support such an operation is absurdly flimsy. That’s why I’m voting with my party against war with Cuba.” -Senator Joe Biden (D)


“Public support for war strongest in South, weakest in New England” -New York Times


“International community at large strongly condemns America’s War proposal; Allies in Europe and Latin America will not join Havana campaign” -The Washington Post


“Democrats signal themselves as a party of doves following congressional votes on Cuba” - Seattle Times


“The Lonely Man: Why Gary Johnson was the only Republican Senator to vote No” -The Santa Fe New Mexican


“They’re the Freedomites called pinkos by Fox. Jon Stewart, Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, Mike Gravel. They don’t want to send troops to Cuba, and have attacked the Trump administration with fire and fury the past few days. But two years ago, they wanted you to vote for him in the general election. The democratic socialists of the Freedom Party campaigned for Donald Trump and voted for him, expecting an ilk of positive radical change that the Democrats could not provide. Now they’ve gotten their worst nightmare in the process. Not only did they attach themselves to a party that at large was willing to kneel before the neocons, but Democratic defiance to Trumpian foreign policy now makes bigger media waves than they ever could.” -Excerpt from the article “Now That Nader’s Crashed…”


“Mr. President, we need to leave the city immediately!”- Aide to Raúl Castro


“Anti-war protests across America in weeks following invasion” -Chicago Tribute


“Guerilla warfare as remnants of Cuba military and Castro loyalists take to liberating their country from American solders” -The New Zealand Herald


“Mata al yanqui!” -Slogan by Cuban military members


“Laughter From Bloodshed: How Late-night Comedy is Lampooning the Cuba War”- The New Yorker


“They couldn’t have given us a better present than this accursed war. There’s rarely been a better year to run as a Democrat.” -Skip Humphrey (D), candidate for Minnesota’s senate race


“Bill Nelson voted no against the Cuba War, he voted against the interests of Cuban-Americans, he voted against you the American people!

“(Crowd Boos)”

“But he’ll met your reckoning this November!

Crowd: “JEB! JEB! JEB!”

-Former Governor Jeb Bush (R) at a senate campaign rally


“Attorney General Rudy Giuliani defends Guantanamo Bay Human Rights Abuses”- Time Magazine
 
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Snip snip
Don’t really think there’d really be a serious insurgency threat, at least not like OTL Iraq. Also, who would be being detained at Gitmo? At least long term wouldn’t it be redundant to detain people, I doubt anyone in Cuba is that committed to the regime that they’d be trying to commit terrorist attacks. From what I can tell people in Cuba are about as committed to communism as people in the USSR after 1989.
 
As I feel we're seeing more and more of Trump presidency here, I'd like to discuss into the specifics of his removal.

There what MaskedPickle said in the original thread (p 63, post 1258) :
To resume, I had pictured a President Donald Trump going completely bonkers against Zhirinovsky's Russia, threatening to employ nuclear weaponry to defend Ukraine against the Russians; Vice President Hill Harper resigns and convinces the US Army, led by General Eric Shinseki, to capture and detain the President; Speaker Nancy Pelosi becomes Acting President until the election in 2008 of Russ Feingold, defeated by Jeb Bush in 2012.
Per se, it looks like a military coup, but wouldn't it be more natural to see this as part of a call upon section IV of the 25th amendment whereas the President is removed by a vote of the cabinet, a more natural or plausible way?
Maybe Shinseki is instrumental in convincing the Cabinet to vote against Trump.
I speak of that because a coup as it sounds would be very bad a precedent and constitutionally, politically and morally questionable.
But if I'm wrong, I'd still like to learn how, even in the midst of a major nuclear crisis, the Army would come to turn its back on two centuries of tradition and overthrow an constitutionally elected president.


Plus, as I read again the TL, I came across that passage of the second post :
But do we have, twenty years after this fateful election ? We have had many wars, many terrorist attacks, our first Jewish, African American and female Presidents.
That's technically canon, and from the indications provided after the TL's end, we can identify the first Jewish president as being Russ Feingold, Richards and Pelosi as the female presidents, but so far, no African American president precised.
As it's canon, I've come a way of conciliating this apparent contradiction with an hypothesis that may seemingly contradict the handwave description of Trump's removal as quoted above but also may be understood under a different angle.
Well, the most likely candidate for African American president is, I'm sure everybody already know, Hill Harper. Still, he is frequently referred to in a CNN interview from 2011 as a former vice president.
So, to concile the removal of Trump description and this, I would see that Hill Harper didn't resign outright but served a short while as Acting President following the cabinet vote, maybe followed by Trump being brought to a remote place 'for his protection' to avoid a come back, then Harper resigned to let Pelosi become Acting President before Congress voted on permanently removing Trump.
 
That's technically canon, and from the indications provided after the TL's end, we can identify the first Jewish president as being Russ Feingold, Richards and Pelosi as the female presidents, but so far, no African American president precised.
As it's canon, I've come a way of conciliating this apparent contradiction with an hypothesis that may seemingly contradict the handwave description of Trump's removal as quoted above but also may be understood under a different angle.
Well, the most likely candidate for African American president is, I'm sure everybody already know, Hill Harper. Still, he is frequently referred to in a CNN interview from 2011 as a former vice president.
So, to concile the removal of Trump description and this, I would see that Hill Harper didn't resign outright but served a short while as Acting President following the cabinet vote, maybe followed by Trump being brought to a remote place 'for his protection' to avoid a come back, then Harper resigned to let Pelosi become Acting President before Congress voted on permanently removing Trump.

I had always assumed Trump had been forced by General Shinseki to resign the Presidency altogether, thus not providing an opportunity for Trump to possibly regain office under Sec. 4 of the 25th. Not to mention the text of the amendment requires the VP's accent and MaskedPickle was clear that Harper resigned. I'm thinking maybe Harper got the cabinet to relieve Trump and then Trump got reinstated by Congress somehow, forcing Harper to resign and to ask the military to remove him. I've thought about doing a piece on the circumstances of Trump's resignation.
 
I had always assumed Trump had been forced by General Shinseki to resign the Presidency altogether, thus not providing an opportunity for Trump to possibly regain office under Sec. 4 of the 25th. Not to mention the text of the amendment requires the VP's accent and MaskedPickle was clear that Harper resigned. I'm thinking maybe Harper got the cabinet to relieve Trump and then Trump got reinstated by Congress somehow, forcing Harper to resign and to ask the military to remove him. I've thought about doing a piece on the circumstances of Trump's resignation.

I'd like to know the public reaction to America's military behaving like South American generals.

Even people who thought Trump was nuts would be shocked by the military bullying the government.
 
I'd like to know the public reaction to America's military behaving like South American generals.

Even people who thought Trump was nuts would be shocked by the military bullying the government.

Doubtlessly, but the extent depends on the context. I always just assumed that they were literally at Defcon 2 against Russia and that the military coup was a last ditch effort to prevent a third world war. In that scenario, more people would approve if it means that they live.
 
Doubtlessly, but the extent depends on the context. I always just assumed that they were literally at Defcon 2 against Russia and that the military coup was a last ditch effort to prevent a third world war. In that scenario, more people would approve if it means that they live.

Still, that might pose a challenge to American infallibility. Obviously, there is justification for it, but it also poses questions about the strength of Democratic government.
 
In case anybody wants a graph for the presidential elections. Data comes from TwisterAce's wikiboxes:

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I just thought of something and realized that in this TL, Trump becomes president before Twitter even comes to the fore.
I'm so used to the tweetocratic style of the current OTL Trump presidency that I wonders how it will go ITTL without something as public and widely used as Twitter.
Any idea?
 
I just thought of something and realized that in this TL, Trump becomes president before Twitter even comes to the fore.
I'm so used to the tweetocratic style of the current OTL Trump presidency that I wonders how it will go ITTL without something as public and widely used as Twitter.
Any idea?

Making public speeches every night?
 
Where Are They Now?
Where Are They Now?

Ted Cruz: A far-right pundit who's the editor-in-chief of Bretibart.com

Bobby Jindal: The leader of the senate Republicans who worked with President Jeb Bush to pass a conservative agenda. One of President Affleck's biggest critics.

Sarah Palin: An obscure Alaskan politician who never went beyond being mayor of Wasilla.

Cory Booker: An associate justice of the Supreme Court selected by Affleck.

Kamala Harris: Affleck's Attorney General.

Joe Biden: Former senator from Delaware. Devotes his fundraising skills and fortune to cancer research.

Barack Obama: Congressman for Illinois' First congressional District.

Rand Paul: A failed Freedomite candidate for the 2008 Senate Election in North Carolina. Spends his days leading a libertarian super-pac.

Andrew Yang: The controversial Freedomite governor of New York. Running for President in 2020.


Maxime Bernier: Leader of the populist Peoples' Party of Quebec.

Justin Trudeau: A member of the Liberal Party of Quebec, and former mayor of Montreal.

Jeremy Corbyn: Labour MP who gets into frequent rows with Prime Minister Ed Millibrand over ideological purity.
 
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2004 Freedom Party Primaries
Since it seems timely here's the 2004 Freedom Party primary.

1580678299727.png


Full list of candidates:

Mayor of San Francisco Jello Biafra (CA)
Former Secretary of Health and Human Services Howard Dean (VT)
Former House Minority Leader Joseph P. Kennedy II (MA)
Senator Joe Lieberman (CT)
Congressman Ron Paul (TX)
Congressman Al Sharpton (NY)
Congressman L. Neil Smith (CO)
Senator Arlen Specter (PA)
Former Governor Donald Trump (NY)
 
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Since it seems timely here's the 2004 Freedom Party primary.

View attachment 520736

Full list of candidates:

Mayor of San Francisco Jello Biafra (CA)
Former Secretary of Health and Human Services Howard Dean (VT)
Former House Minority Leader Joseph P. Kennedy II (MA)
Senator Joe Lieberman (CT)
Congressman Ron Paul (TX)
Former Governor Donald Trump (NY)
Congressman Al Sharpton (NY)
Congressman L. Neil Smith (CO)
Senator Arlen Specter (PA)

Good job.
 
Photos
A few photos:

Governor Warren Beatty and his close friend Senator John McCain at a California Freedom Party event

1587158194420.png


Governor Trump campaigns for Jesse Ventura in Minnesota

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Congressmen Jon Stewart and Ron Paul, representing different wings and regions of the Freedom Party

1587158994136.png
 
Ross Perot, Freedom Party, and the 1990s: Crash Course US History #44, January 16, 2014
This is less of a contribution, and more of a love letter to one of my favorite people, John Green. I want to explore how people might explore the TTL history, which I think is an interesting concept in of itself.

JOHN GREEN: Hi, I'm John Green, and this is Crash Course US History, today we can talk about the decade when Me-From-the-Past-Grew-Up-In: the 1990s.

JOHN GREEN FROM THE PAST: Oh, oh, Mr. Green, Mr. Green. This is the best time ever. I get to watch Tiny Toon Adventures.

JOHN GREEN: Well, me from the past, of course you would say that. You had a peaceful childhood. But the thing is, a good year for you might a be a terrible year for someone else. I mean, if you were a dot com billionaire, I bet the 1990s would be sweet. But if you lived in Bosnia, or Nagoya, or Atlanta, or Chechnya, or San Francisco, you'd have a...very different opinion.

(Crash Course Intro)

JOHN GREEN: When we last left off, George Bush was enjoying some of the highest approval ratings ever, with his victory in the Gulf War. And the evil Soviet Empire had just collapse, which you think would've helped George Bush's reputation. I mean, he didn't cause it, but politicians tend to get blamed for what goes on, whether or not they actually do it.

I mean, Reagan said "tear down this wall," and we think he did, but he didn't actually-

JOHN GREEN (Camera 2): Anyways, Bush seemed primed for re-election, but then around 1990,the economy began dipping into recession. During this time, Bush also broke his promise not to raise taxes, which angered many prominent Republicans. And the Soviet collapse that happened soon after, rather than helping Bush, led to a brief moment when Americans ignored global issues, and started to become increasingly concerned about domestic issues, like the economy, the budget deficit, the decline of manufacturing, and crime.

The Democrats, at first, seemed ready to take back the White House. But there seemed to be a backlash against the political establishment as a whole. This was seen in movies like Thelma and Louise, but even politically, the coming shift was apparent in state politics. In the 1990 elections, Wally Hickel and Lowell Weicker, two former Republicans, ran successful independent tickets and became governors of Alaska and Connecticut respectively.

Nowadays, we mourn the first President Bush, but at time, his rather dry delivery and seeming inability to be in touch with the everyman, was seen as the embodiment of everything wrong with Washington.

But the one who would most benefit from all this discontent was not the Democratic Party, but a big eared Texan named H. Ross Perot.

Perot is perhaps the quintessential American success story, and also unlike Bush a genuine Texan. Born in rural Texarkana, he rose to become a successful salesman for IBM, before quitting and found Electronic Data Systems, a successful data processing firm. He soon made millions from government contracts processing Medicare. Perot later became famous sponsoring the rescue of two of his employees from Iran during the Iranian Revolution.

In 1992, Perot suddenly appeared on Larry King, and announced he was beginning a campaign for President. Immediately, millions of people rallied around his cause. His talk of bringing change, as well as his opposition to free trade and support of a balanced budget, brought in millions of middle-class supporters. Perot gained even greater support when he brought in former Democratic Governor Jerry Brown as his running mate.

Bush meanwhile, fended off a serious primary challenge from conservative commentator Pat Buchanan, who was livid over Bush breaking his promise not to raise taxes.

The Democrats, after a lively primary session, nominated Arkansas Governor and alleged non-smoker of marijuana Bill Clinton and paired him Tennessee Senator Al Gore.

Perot, thanks to a strange combination of populist proclamations, boring infomercials, and accusing the GOP of spying on him, was able to win the electoral college and become the first independent President since George Washington.

Perot ran on the idea that a businessman would do the job of running the country better than all those stuffy politicians. But as it turns out, the skillset in business was not the same thing as skill in politics.

Aside from his tough on crime stance, Perot initially couldn't get things done. And he was known for his serious temper tantrums and controlling behavior.

But Perot was able to harness the anti-establishment mood, and in 1993, he founded the Freedom Party.

It is strange to call a party a "Freedom Party". Since each American has different ideas on what freedom is. Some would see you should be free not to die from a existing condition, while others say you should be free from having to kill your pigs.

The Freedom Party itself can be described as a brought tent, with people who have different ideas on freedom.

Many of the Freedom Party members include moderate Republicans who left the increasingly conservative party, like Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter, and moderate Democrats like former Massachusetts Senator Paul Tsongas. But even other non-establishment people like Jesse Ventura, Ralph Nader, and Ron Paul. As did many celebrities like Jon Stewart, Nolan Ryan, and Donald Trump.

In the 1994 elections, the Republicans regained control of the house for the first time in decades. The new Republican Speaker, Newt "I am not a toad", Gingrich, worked with the newly established Freedom Party caucus to bring about change.

And change happened for better or worse:

Ross Perot established the national internet system, although he did not, as people allege, invent the Internet. We also got the Balanced Budget Amendment, and laws protecting American industries, anti-lobbying bills, and more controversially, gun control bills. He also intervened in Rwanda, stopping a genocide that had killed ten of thousands of people. He also toppled Saddam Hussein and helped the Kurds form their own nation. And Puerto Rico became the 51st state.

By 1996, Ross Perot achieved so much, he seemed prime for re-election, especially as the economy began booming. Unfortunately, his temper began to flare up, especially as one thing began to haunt Americans: terrorism.

Let's go to the thought bubble:

Terrorism became a severe problem during the decade. In 1993, the World Trade Center building was bombed by agents of Osama Bin Laden, and agents of Saddam Hussein assassinated ex-President Bush, the only assassination of an ex-President in history. Then in 1994, terrorists from Algeria hijacked a plane and crashed into the Eiffel Tower. In Japan, the city of Nagoya was destroyed in a nuclear explosion set off by the Aum Shirinkyo cult, an organization determined to bring about the end times.

In Waco, TX, the Branch Dravidians under David Koresh drew federal agents into a standoff that lasted over a month.

In America, the Murrah Building was bombed in 1995.

And Stormfront, a far-right organization morphed into a united terrorist front determined to bring down the government and start a race war under David Duke. They Mile High Stadium in Denver, and later the Million Man March in Washington DC. Then the Olympic Games were bombed in Atlanta. Then Paul Wellstone, the presumptive Democratic nominee, was assasinated for his Jewish background.

Perot himself nearly fell victim to a terrorist attack. This combined with the Chinagate Scandal, led Perot to storm out of a presidential debate, allowing the Democrat, Texas Governor Ann Richards to defeat the Republican, South Carolina Governor and Grampa Simpson impersonator.

Perot's legacy is still under debate today. But his Presidency was undoubtedly about change. So much changed happened. But we should be careful about blindly accepting change. History isn't about supposed trends, but about the decisions we make. For those decisions will impact how people will think about us.

Thanks for watching, I'll see you next week.
 

dcd

Banned
I was always confused by the thing with David Duke.Don't get me wrong,I'm not being an apologist for the guy,but he's always denounced violence and his whole appeal is based on challenging the idea that white nationalists are all cruel,ignorant a-holes.Personally,he's apparently a really nice guy.Which makes him all the more terrifying-he's not a sadist or sociopath,he's not inherently evil,he genuinely believes everything he does is for the greater good-and he's a neo -Nazi.If he weren't the last thing he'd be a straight-up hero.
 
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