The Whites win

Is there any way to make the Whites win during the Russian Civil War with the POD after the Revolution
 
Is there any way to make the Whites win during the Russian Civil War with the POD after the Revolution

Somehow get the Whites to make a deal with the Greens and/or some elements of the Reds?

Massive intervention by the British, Americans, etc on the side of the Whites.
 
Is there any way to make the Whites win during the Russian Civil War with the POD after the Revolution
I was just reading up on some of this yesterday, and have several PODs

1. Lenin assassinated. Lenin had two assassination attempts on him during the revolution. It seems to me that the second has a better chance of killing him (he was shot in the neck after all). With his death you'll see the Red's infighting reach new heights, as it is likely Totsky's and Stalin's camps will begin to fight each other, creating total chaos and disorientation it the Red's ranks. A White victory is easy from here.

2. Trotsky isn't released. When Trotsky attempted to return to Russia from the states, he was found and detained by British naval officers (he was exiled from there after all). However the Russiann foreign minister demanded Trotsky's release, albeit after much hesitation and waiting for a month. Without Trotsky the revolutionaries are missing one architect of the Red Army.

3. The Whites manage to organize. There were a ton of varying anti-Bolshevisk groups. Their disorganisation, and in some cases their tendency to fight each other, were a death sentence for the Whites.

4. The Whites at least look like they're winning. Foreign opinion of sending troops to Russia depended on how well the Whites were doing. If the Whites look like they're winning on paper, then support for the war will increase in foreign countries (specificall the U.K. and U.S.). With more of these new troops the Whites have a better chance (though not much, by most accounts foreign troops were 'green').

5. The Reds are forced from Central Russia. I don't care how, but if the Reds are forced out of the railroad, production, and agricultural heart of Russia, then their chances of winning go down. Fast.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
It's probably not entirely impossible, just very hard. First the Whites were badly organized, and the generals all essentially went solo, and had very little cooperation.

Also the Whites lacked popular support. Perhaps the most important thing. If the Russian farmers much rather saw the Reds in charge (and they were not at all fond of the reds) what chances do you have?

Another important factor is that the Whites were pigheaded about the territories separating from Russia, and never recognized for example that Finland, Poland and Baltic States seceded, which made any cooperation between the new States and the Whites impossible.
 
Could we, with a suitable POD, have Germany sign a peace treaty with the Whites instead of the Reds? What difference (if any) would this make in the course of the RCW?
 
It's probably not entirely impossible, just very hard. First the Whites were badly organized, and the generals all essentially went solo, and had very little cooperation.

Also the Whites lacked popular support. Perhaps the most important thing. If the Russian farmers much rather saw the Reds in charge (and they were not at all fond of the reds) what chances do you have?

This is probably the most important factor. Victory in the civil war was not so much a matter of weapons – the Allies were happy to throw their surpluses at anybody in eastern Europe which didn’t resemble a Bolshevik – but finding enough people who want to bear them. Or at least more people then the Reds could – which wasn’t much at all. This failure shows how abysmally bad OTL’s whites were at gaining popular support, and how much room there was for improvement.

Another important factor is that the Whites were pigheaded about the territories separating from Russia, and never recognized for example that Finland, Poland and Baltic States seceded, which made any cooperation between the new States and the Whites impossible.

This may also help. Wrangel comes to mind as an example of a more pragmatic leader. Although different governments in the new states may also be needed. Poland for instance didn’t want the Whites to win at all, largely because a Red Russia would be more isolated then a White one.
 
It would help if the Whites could tolerate some sort of pretend-leftist governments instead of shooting them or putting every key area under martial law.

It might not help enough, of course.
 
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