The Whale has Wings

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Midway - the aftermath.

With the obvious presence of a Japanese submarine threat in the area, it was decided that the remaining ships of the US Task Force and Force Z would meet north of Hawaii, to allow the remaining carriers to give the maximum antisubmarine protection, and just in case the Japanese had the resources left for any sort of further attack. There is a certain amount of delicate negotiation about who is in command, and Vice-Admiral Lyster, as the senior officer, is officially in charge of the combined force. Since no offensive operations are planned until after the return to Hawaii, this is not seen as an operational problem.

The news of the defeat of the Japanese fleet is still a secret, although the rumours circulating in Pearl Harbor are reaching massive proportions (and growing continually less accurate as time goes on.). Nimitz has reported to Washington and Singapore that the Japanese have been halted, but that a detailed appraisal will have to wait until the ships return and the respective commanders report the action in detail. Ship losses are being kept a secret until a full casualty list is compiled.

The combined force takes some time to reach Pearl Harbor, as the damage to a number of ships limits the speed to 10 knots. The arrival of two tugs on the following day helps; the slowest ship, the badly damage French cruiser Gloire, is taken under tow with an escort of four US destroyers while the rest of the ships are able to increase speed to 16 knots. There is also considerable discussion between Lyster and Spruance over the issue of what order the ships will enter harbour. Each Admiral trying to give the other the honour! In the end a decision is made; after the time-honoured method of tossing a coin, the fleet will be led in by HMS Audacious, with the ships following in alternate order.


Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, 6th June. Office of Admiral Nimitz, US Pacific fleet commander.

“So, they finally came to a decision, Admiral?”

Nimitz nodded to Admiral Halsey - still not recovered from his skin condition, but allowed out for the ships return due to protestations and the plea from his doctors to give them a rest from them.

“It took them longer to decide what order to arrive in than it did for them to sink the Japanese. Not to mention the reports I got.” Nimitz waved two sheets of paper at the amused Halsey. “These arrived with one of the planes that landed this morning. Spruance summed the whole operation up in half a page. Lyster was positively eloquent in comparison, his report lasts almost 3/4 of a page. How the hell am I going to report to Washington and London, I have both of them breathing down my neck and this is all I have to go on!!”

Halsey, refused permission to lead the US force due to being in hospital, seemed remarkably unconcerned. “You’re the boss, Roosevelt and Churchill are your problem, I’m just a simple fighting Admiral.” The look Nimitz gave him in return rather promised an early return to the hospital, but fortunately his aide entered the room to announce that the lead ships were entering the main channel. The two admirals headed for the window, binoculars in hand.

“That’s a bloody huge carrier, Admiral.”

Nimitz just nodded, his own eyes looking over the Audacious.

“Sir, what’s that on the British carriers masthead?”

Nimitz frowned at his aides odd question, then as he focussed on the said masthead broke into a chuckle. Halsey looked at him, then took his own look.

“Look at the Enterprise, Halsey - it looks like Spruance has copied the British tradition too.” He turned to his aide, who was still looking terribly puzzled at the sight of the two lead carriers each with a broom lashed to the masthead.

“It signifies that the fleet has swept the ocean clear of the enemy, Lieutenant. A rather fitting sentiment, I think.”



The losses on both sides took some time to evaluate - in particular as the Japanese seemed to be refusing to mention that anything other than a minor action had taken place.

The USN had lost two fleet carriers sunk, and the USS Yorktown would be in dock for some 6-9 months

The RN had lost one fleet carrier, and the battleships KGV and Anson damaged. KGV would take some two months to fix at Singapore, but Anson’s more severe underwater damage would need some five months, and it was decided this would be best dome in San Francisco. The cruiser Glasgow would require major reconstruction; the Royal Navy were not sure if it was worth it, but the Americans insisted on doing the work as a show of solidarity after the British aid in the action.

The French had lost two destroyers, and the battleship Richelieu would require some two months work. This would be done at Singapore, although it would have been somewhat easier in a US dock, as the ship might be required, and the shell damage would not prevent her fighting at close to her full capacity. Although the heavily damage Gloire had also arrived safely, the damage was considered too great and she was declared a TCL.

The damage done to the IJN was far more serious. Four of their five fleet carriers had been sunk, and Shokaku, the only survivor, would require the best part of 9 months to repair. Three of the four light carriers were at the bottom of the Pacific, and Junyo would be four months in dock. The Japanese carrier force was effectively eliminated as a threat for some time. Worse was the loss of the experienced (and irreplaceable) carrier pilots. With the losses from the air actions and the men lost in the carrier sinkings, some 85% of the pilots had been lost, with no immediate hope of replacements (and even then, not of the quality of the med lost). While the allies had taken crew losses, they were much lighter and the USN and FAA replacement programs were well able to cover the losses.

The IJN had also lost two battleships, four heavy cruisers, five destroyers and three transports, but it was the loss of the carriers and their aviators that was to damage the capabilities of the IJN the most. In a similar situation, the allies might have transferred pilots from the USAAF or the RAF to take the load, but the political infighting between the Japanese Army and Navy made this a practical impossibility. While the analysts expected that the Japanese would try and rebuild their carrier capacity with new fleet carriers and merchant conversions, the pilot pool would be much more difficult to reconstruct. Since the US Essex class carriers were expected in service next year, and the RN had more Audacious class under construction, it was felt the Japanese carrier threat was now much past its high point.

Consideration was given to the need for a carrier force in the mid-pacific. The USS Wasp was now at Singapore, and with the likelihood of a Japanese carrier offensive in the near future highly unlikely, it was decided to bring her forward where, with the USS Enterprise, she would form the US striking force for the next few months. Due to the temporary shortage of heavy escorts, the US Pacific fleet received another RN ship on loan until new US construction could replace her - HMS Hood had finally finished working up after her US refit, and would accompany the USS Enterprise. The rest of Force Z would be returning to Singapore once the immediate battle damage had been fixed. As most of the Bulwark’s air group had survived the loss of the ship, Somerville and Lyster agreed to leave a squadron of SeaLance (crewed by aircrew from the Bulwark) to allow the USN to train with a radar-equipped plane, and to give them that capability while the Avenger was modified to carry the ASV set. Trials had already been carried out on this, but the experience of Midway had made Nimitz and his Admirals true believers in the usefulness of an onboard radar plane.
 
MattII

I don't know. In Europe that was generally done by the smaller CVEs and CVls rather than the big fleet guys. Different in the Pacific true but would the RN be that heavily involved there as now the Japanese threat to Britain immediate interests is largely over the priority will be even more Europe and defeating the Nazis.

Steve


Actually, the allies did use the fleet carriers in Europe when available, they were much tougher. In OTL the need was to get them out east asap, but there isnt the need this time. Things may change after the South China Sea is a British lake, of course...
 

Garrison

Donor
Nice round up of Midway.

The Americans have taken a serious hit but it may well be that operations like Watchtower will be easier given how thin Japanese are on warships and transports; not to mention all those troops lost or bogged down in SEA.

And of course in SEA there's precious little the Japanese can do now to save their forces in Borneo and elsewhere from being rolled up by the British and Commonwealth forces.

And now its back to Europe for Operation Pseudo-Husky. :)
 
with no immediate hope of replacements (and even then, not of the quality of the men lost)

Correction in red
----------------

Nice round up from the allied side, plans for IJN or uninvolved third parties assessments ?
 
Astrodragon

Ouch! Hadn't realised that it was quite that bad for the Japanese carrier force. Really got cleared out. Was thinking they might have enough left for one last desperate lunge south but no way any integral air support for an operation now. Plus as you say replacing the ships and even more the crews is going to be a lost cause before the oil runs out and the allies come calling in large numbers.

Possibly a question as to what the allies do in the Pacific now. The 2CV at Hawaii can hold the fort there until the Essex's arrive but even that might be rather a waste. The RN has is it 3-4 CV and a CVL in SEA once the fleet gets back? So if they, possibly with some US support, clear out Borneo could that be seen as the way back to the Philippines and possibly to reach China? [Can't remember if Burma fell in TTL?]. Possibly the RN and friends clear Borneo and secure control of neighbouring water then the USN with some RN and other support start pushing north.

Depends on whether or not the allies can agree on plans and on whether there's anything better to do with the big flattops. I know you said they did make some use of fleet CVs for invasion support in Europe but still suspect most will be employed in the Far East.

In one way Nimitz is slightly wrong as it was initially a Dutch tradition, but the RN has rather made it their own in the last couple of centuries. Excellent touch through.

Steve
 
Burma has held alright Steve, and Slim was pushing into Thailand the last we heard to increase the pressure on Yamashita. ;)

Something we discussed a while ago was how the political dynamics in Japan will be changed by this, the knives are going to be out, quite literally, for the IJN in Tokyo. The IJA will be insisting that the war is fought according to its terms, but all those Japanese soldiers in Borneo, Celebes and New Guinea are going to be left horribly exposed by this and will probably the subject of increasing Allied air raids and submarine blockades in the coming months. The only question now is how long can Japan keep it going for?
 
Midway - the aftermath.

The damage done to the IJN was far more serious. Four of their five fleet carriers had been sunk, and Shokaku, the only survivor, would require the best part of 9 months to repair. Three of the four light carriers were at the bottom of the Pacific, and Junyo would be four months in dock. The Japanese carrier force was effectively eliminated as a threat for some time. Worse was the loss of the experienced (and irreplaceable) carrier pilots. With the losses from the air actions and the men lost in the carrier sinkings, some 85% of the pilots had been lost, with no immediate hope of replacements (and even then, not of the quality of the med lost). While the allies had taken crew losses, they were much lighter and the USN and FAA replacement programs were well able to cover the losses.

In a similar situation, the allies might have transferred pilots from the USAAF or the RAF to take the load, but the political infighting between the Japanese Army and Navy made this a practical impossibility. While the analysts expected that the Japanese would try and rebuild their carrier capacity with new fleet carriers and merchant conversions, the pilot pool would be much more difficult to reconstruct. Since the US Essex class carriers were expected in service next year, and the RN had more Audacious class under construction, it was felt the Japanese carrier threat was now much past its high point.

Consideration was given to the need for a carrier force in the mid-pacific. The USS Wasp was now at Singapore, and with the likelihood of a Japanese carrier offensive in the near future highly unlikely, it was decided to bring her forward where, with the USS Enterprise, she would form the US striking force for the next few months. Due to the temporary shortage of heavy escorts, the US Pacific fleet received another RN ship on loan until new US construction could replace her - HMS Hood had finally finished working up after her US refit, and would accompany the USS Enterprise. As most of the Bulwark’s air group had survived the loss of the ship, Somerville and Lyster agreed to leave a squadron of SeaLance (crewed by aircrew from the Bulwark) to allow the USN to train with a radar-equipped plane, and to give them that capability while the Avenger was modified to carry the ASV set. Trials had already been carried out on this, but the experience of Midway had made Nimitz and his Admirals true believers in the usefulness of an onboard radar plane.

Thanks to the US breaking the IJN codes, they would quickly figure out the ship losses, but would they be able to realize what that meant? Would they know that there wasn't any other carriers available? The implications to the pilot pool? Or that there was no way the IJN and the IJA would help each other?

Don't forget to mention the IJN realization that their communications have been compromised. They have to do something about that.

Would the Hood be a good fit for the Enterprise and Wasp? Enterprise has a couple of knots on her, and the Wasp has one.

Gonna do AAR for the Japanese? I think it will be basically a very understated panic.

I hope that the Brits get a very good deal for their ASVs.

-Bil
 
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that is fantastic, the Japanese fleet has been mauled, there is nothing to really stop any allied attack onto any any of the Japanese territories outside of China or the home islands really, Cant wait to see what happens next
 
“Look at the Enterprise, Halsey - it looks like Spruance has copied the British tradition too.” He turned to his aide, who was still looking terribly puzzled at the sight of the two lead carriers each with a broom lashed to the masthead.

Oh, I like it............:D:D:D
 
Burma has held alright Steve, and Slim was pushing into Thailand the last we heard to increase the pressure on Yamashita. ;)

Something we discussed a while ago was how the political dynamics in Japan will be changed by this, the knives are going to be out, quite literally, for the IJN in Tokyo. The IJA will be insisting that the war is fought according to its terms, but all those Japanese soldiers in Borneo, Celebes and New Guinea are going to be left horribly exposed by this and will probably the subject of increasing Allied air raids and submarine blockades in the coming months. The only question now is how long can Japan keep it going for?

The Oncoming Storm

Thanks. Its starting to come back now.;)

Going to be very bad for what's left of the IKN with enemies both domestic and foreign seeking to carve chunks out of what's left.:D

Steve
 
(snip)
Would the Hood be a good fit for the Enterprise and Wasp? Enterprise has a couple of knots on her, and the Wasp has one.

Shouldn't really be that much of a problem, as IOTL, the USN operated carriers with the 27-kt North Carolina & South Dakota classes (often slightly slower in service conditions), & found it operationally acceptable during wartime (even if it was enough of an issue for only the Iowas to be retained in service post-war & wartime design studies to focus on faster ships), and are even doing it right now TTL, since Washington's part of the Wasp TF at Singapore. It was Wasp's ~29 kt speed that was of major concern to the USN due to the adverse effect on air operations
 
Don't forget to mention the IJN realization that their communications have been compromised. They have to do something about that.
Well that will be easier to remedy now, the sunk ships no longer need to be counted in on whatever new equipment gets distributed.
 
The question is now is how many carriers do the Japanese have left in the first place? we know they had slightly more than OTL due to RN building new ships.

But so far this (if i remember rightly) timeline they have had 3 Light Carriers sunk and 1 Fleet carrier sunk in operations prior to midway with another light and a fleet carrier damaged.
so that leaves them with at least 2 Fleet Carriers (under repair) and 2 light carriers (under repair) plus any new construction (maybe 2 planned of the Taiho class instead of 1?)

Either way i suspect that the most ships that the Japanese could assemble is the same number of air craft carriers that the RN has in singapore. (4 Fleet Carriers and 2 CVL's)
 
I think the aircrew losses stated are dubious at 85%

in OTL Midway, the actual aircrew losses are now estimated as only approx 25% of the embarked number (Shattered Sword pp421 et al).
Proportionally actual Pilot losses would be slightly higher of course. (average crew size being a bit less that two)

There are some drivers for a higher loss rate in TTL
- heavier losses in air combat,especially against Force Z
- night sinkings for 2CV and one CVL
but triple OTL ?

Of course the absolute number of losses will be higher.
.. in TTL the IJN started with roughly twice as many planes as OTL ... perhaps 75% more aircrew given a higher proportion of single seaters
and the storyline has spared few elements.

Even so I doubt more than 400 IJN aircrew have died .. around 200 of them pilots... somewhat less than 50% of embarked

Thats quite a hit when the IJN had only 2000 aircrew in Nov 1941 OTL - though there will be a few more in TTL because of the expanded CVL and shadow programs

Will this affect the IJN ... of course it will! especially if you add the losses of the other CVLs in the South China Sea battles.
but the question is: does it reach the critical levels of Mid 1943 OTL i.e. after the Solomons campaign?

Thats for the Dragon to know and the rest of us to wonder.
 
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The question is now is how many carriers do the Japanese have left in the first place? we know they had slightly more than OTL due to RN building new ships.

The think the argument was made earlier that the IJN started the war with the result of a decade of buildup, and were already at the edge of the current economic/industrial capacity. I think they got a couple more light carriers, but they just didn't have the capacity to add more than that, either in the case of number of slips/docks and pilots.

That said, I'm not sure that the US or the UK really has a good idea just how large (or small) that the IJN is. Considering the pre-war expectations of the Japanese, the size of their fleet along with their capabilities were a surprise. I think a good analogy would be if tomorrow the Brazilian Navy attacked Norfolk with 6 CVNs with Hornet equivalents with attendant escorts. A basically third rate (to the US perspective) power shows up and while not as large as the USN, is still far larger and more advanced than they were expected to be. After Pearl Harbor, I am sure than US analysts are hedging the bets like mad. Yeah, if the IJN had more carriers, they would be logically have been at Midway, but maybe they were on other missions or working up. I can see them arguing that it would be entirely possible that the IJN could easily have another two carriers that are undergoing refit/repair that can be rushed back into service just due to normal ship rotations in addition to Midway's survivors.

-Bil
 
The IJN losses in the air were high.
They lost 68 fighters, 66 dive bombers and 87 tbr destroyed (thats 51% of the aircrew gone). A significant number were damaged, with injured crew (and some would have died).

So of the aircrew onboard when the carriers were lost, they lost over half. Injured men would have a much lower chance of survival (especially at night). The 85% loss also includes men too wounded to return to operations - some of these will recover, some will be invalided out. But at the moment, the Japanese aircrew has been shattered. By the time the injured are availablem, the losses during Midway will probably have been 75%, but that doesnt help them right now.

Losses to the maintenance crews will be a lot lower of course, but at the moment they have no aircraft or carriers to work from. Given the tendency of the Japanese to misuse skilled personell, many of these will likely be lost serving aircraft on the ground in SE Asia...
 
The think the argument was made earlier that the IJN started the war with the result of a decade of buildup, and were already at the edge of the current economic/industrial capacity. I think they got a couple more light carriers, but they just didn't have the capacity to add more than that, either in the case of number of slips/docks and pilots.

That said, I'm not sure that the US or the UK really has a good idea just how large (or small) that the IJN is. Considering the pre-war expectations of the Japanese, the size of their fleet along with their capabilities were a surprise. I think a good analogy would be if tomorrow the Brazilian Navy attacked Norfolk with 6 CVNs with Hornet equivalents with attendant escorts. A basically third rate (to the US perspective) power shows up and while not as large as the USN, is still far larger and more advanced than they were expected to be. After Pearl Harbor, I am sure than US analysts are hedging the bets like mad. Yeah, if the IJN had more carriers, they would be logically have been at Midway, but maybe they were on other missions or working up. I can see them arguing that it would be entirely possible that the IJN could easily have another two carriers that are undergoing refit/repair that can be rushed back into service just due to normal ship rotations in addition to Midway's survivors.

-Bil

The Allies had a fairly good idea of what ships the IJN had prewar, what they got wrong was the size and capability of some, and in particular the building program (they thought more smaller ships rather than the giant Yamato class). However the assumption is that if the IJN had had more fleet carriers available, they would have used them.
 
The Allies had a fairly good idea of what ships the IJN had prewar, what they got wrong was the size and capability of some, and in particular the building program (they thought more smaller ships rather than the giant Yamato class). However the assumption is that if the IJN had had more fleet carriers available, they would have used them.

So How many carriers do the Japanese have left then? As in terms of building capacity i believe they laid down 6 new fleet carriers in 1942 following Midway OTL
so i assume that would be the max they could lay down to replace existing anyway
either way WW2 has now changed forever, could we see the navy launch a coup against Tojo?
 
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