The Whale has Wings

Status
Not open for further replies.
Astrodragon

Why shouldn't raiding Tokyo be a boost to allied morale? After all, they actually hit the right country!! (not bad for the USAAF...:D)

I don't think people are arguing about the raid being a boost to allied moral, which it will. It's the line "Allied morale which has suffered from a cataract of military disasters since the Pacific war began". As others have argued you could probably say that if you equated allied with American or if it was a OTL situation. However I think tell many of the allied forces in Malaya, the DEI or probably even Burma you would probably get a very angry response. They definitely won't see it as a category of disaster.

Similarly with the fleet. They won't know the exact losses on either side but will know they have stopped the Japanese dead several times now. Also if they have been listening to 'Tokyo Rose' or equivalent reporting the losses the Japanese have been claiming I could see the conversation.

sailor 1 - "damned, we're been sunk"

sailor 2 - "I know, that's the 2nd time this month":D:D:D:p

And yes, expect some even more stupid orders than normal issuing from the Japanese high command as a result of this flagrant insult to the Emperor by the barbaric Americans.

Can they be even more stupid? Although given how much history I've read probably I shouldn't underestimate the capacity of humanity for unparalleled levels of idiotically.;)

Steve
 
Just to expand on the moral thing. The CW forces have mounted a successful defense, as one would expect pf MOST bit not all of the DEI and Malaya/Burma. While there would have been a lot of BBC about the naval battles they are still defensive and will be uncertain as to enemy losses (because the RN is uncertain) with no pix because of it being at night. Also expected.

A raid on Japan itself is an offensive success which is new and a great achievement.

It also proves that the allies can hit the Japanese homeland.

Its also tomorrows chip wrapper.

What is chip wrapper?

BTW, Astrodragon? Minor nitpick. Doolittle was only a Lieutenant Colonel during the raid. He quickly received promotions to Colonel then to Brigadier General shortly thereafter, however.

And while I agree that British/CW/Dutch morale would not be sagging, French morale would be, as would Chinese. For the Chinese people in particular, the raid was received with ecstatic joy. At least, until the Japanese Army began its reprisals. Which, of course, only made the horrors of later American B-29 bombing raids all the easier to do in terms of justification by the Allies.:mad:

The Americans up to this point have only seen from their perspective defeat or costly stalemate/limited defensive strategic victories. So after Pearl Harbor especially this news will be quite welcome indeed. And as far as some of the responses I'm seeing around here from a very few number of posters about the raid, I think Astrodragon has it quite right. Yes, the DEI and Malaya are doing quite well. But the news of the bombing of Tokyo, no matter WHO pulls it off, is going to get many a pint raised to the heroism of those B-25 crews from every Royal Navy seaman in the Pacific.:D

EDIT: This was not a cut and paste job by Astrodragon. There were very minor differences. OTL the Japanese patrol boat DID send a radio message reporting the presence of the task force, only moments before the escorting cruisers sunk it. The message WAS received and understood by the IJN. But they simply believed it was a normal carrier task force. So they planned accordingly for a morning strike to arrive over Tokyo THE NEXT DAY, and prepared the fleet to receive them. Hence, strategic surprise was still gained by Doolittle. Had they launched when planned, they would have arrived over Japan at night.
 
Last edited:
Ah, I see what I missed. It should have read American morale rather than Allied morale. The Brits are fairly happy, but it has been a bit rough for the US. The PI surrender is after all not good for morale. Hopefully the raid will cheer them up a bit.
 
Astrodragon



I don't think people are arguing about the raid being a boost to allied moral, which it will. It's the line "Allied morale which has suffered from a cataract of military disasters since the Pacific war began". As others have argued you could probably say that if you equated allied with American or if it was a OTL situation. However I think tell many of the allied forces in Malaya, the DEI or probably even Burma you would probably get a very angry response. They definitely won't see it as a category of disaster.

Similarly with the fleet. They won't know the exact losses on either side but will know they have stopped the Japanese dead several times now. Also if they have been listening to 'Tokyo Rose' or equivalent reporting the losses the Japanese have been claiming I could see the conversation.

sailor 1 - "damned, we're been sunk"

sailor 2 - "I know, that's the 2nd time this month":D:D:D:p



Can they be even more stupid? Although given how much history I've read probably I shouldn't underestimate the capacity of humanity for unparalleled levels of idiotically.;)

Steve

Well, the OTL Ark Royal was quite used to being sunk on a regular basis...:)

And yes, the Japanese orders can indeed get more stupid. Trust me. MacArthur would be proud....:D
 
Blamey,

I am expecting Harold, the Earl Alexander of the Rhine.


But back to the quiz, yes it was a parody of Fredendall's communication style: O'Connor, LeClerc, Brigade, Malta and the prize of a single one way ticket to Sunderland goes to the Geordie.

Ah, LeClerc. Of course. While I do deplore use of the S word in civilised debate, it's not a bad freebie, when I consider my current location just outside Basingstoke. Only a couple of quid on the Metro and I can get back to dear old Jarra'! :cool:
 
Quite its front page news today and tomorrow???.

Although I do think it would be a big thing, bombing Tokyo vs invading Bali, wtf is a Bali? to Joe Public in 42.

From a UK/CW pov it does mean the Americans are in the war in a public way that alt Coral Sean would not for understandable reasons(opsec).
 
Quite its front page news today and tomorrow???.

Although I do think it would be a big thing, bombing Tokyo vs invading Bali, wtf is a Bali? to Joe Public in 42.

From a UK/CW pov it does mean the Americans are in the war in a public way that alt Coral Sea would not for understandable reasons(opsec).

Quite. At home, the Americans can claim that they've given the emperor a kick up the arse in his own house - something that Britain and the Commonwealth, for all their defensive success, can't. To their allies, they can say, "Look, we're doing our bit, and this is just the beginning." (I'm reminded of the Dambusters raid, convincing Stalin that Britain was still in the game, except this is at the start of the US' war)

Bombing Tokyo has more pull with the press than retaking an unheard of island in the DEI, and perception will be very important after the Philippines.

Lastly, the Japanese reaction could lead to them blowing the already tiny sliver of a chance that their ridiculously ambitious new plan had of succeeding in SEA.
 
By the way, for the benefit of Americans and other barbarians, chips are chunky French Fries...:D:p:D

*Ahem!* As a life long New Englander, I bloody well know all about Fish & Chips. We just never call them chips when referring to them by themselves. If we order fish, and just fish, the waitress will ask: "Would you like fries (1) with that?"

1) We say fries, otherwise they'll think you mean potato chips.
 
Astrodragon wrote:

FREEDOM fries

Fixed that for you!! ;)

ARRRGH! Don't use that wanker American Exceptionalist BS around here! Bad enough I have to see it pouring out of Fixed News and the Tea Party 24/7 in my country, but HERE!? God, this is why history is so important. We went through this crap in WWI, where anti-German hysteria led to changing sauerkraut to "liberty cabbage", and the hamburger to the "liberty sandwich".:mad: When I hear the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" I cringe. When I hear Americans say there wouldn't even BE a France if it weren't for the United States I am disgusted beyond words.

I am NOT one of those Americans who has forgotten the school rhyme we were taught as children, regarding Franco-American history:
"At Yorktown,
the British could not retreat,:(
bottled up by Washington,

and THE FRENCH FLEET!":cool:
 
I actually have been rather disappointed by fish & chips in the UK, with the honourable exception of Whitby. I suspect that I was a little spoilt growing up near both a small fishing port and a large potato growing area in NZ!
 
I actually have been rather disappointed by fish & chips in the UK, with the honourable exception of Whitby. I suspect that I was a little spoilt growing up near both a small fishing port and a large potato growing area in NZ!

Fush and chups :D

Most of North Yorkshire has awesome fish and chips. I still miss them even though it's been 15 years since I lived there.
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top