The Whale has Wings

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For all the hilarity, the Japanese aims are probably more practical than Marshall's ideas about invading France in 1942....:eek:

Actually, the plan is sensible in what it aims to do. The problem is the Japanese don't have the ships and planes to achieve it...

And is it likely to survive the Doolittle Raid? Might we actually see a Midway after all as the Japanese put aside what passes for their version of strategic logic in favour of avenging the humiliation?
 
Um, wasn't Xanadu real? As in, Kublai Khan's capital?
Indeed it was. Massive brainfart on my part. Lord alone knows what I was thinking there. :eek:

I shan't edit that out, but shall leave it a monument to what happens when one types before the brain is engaged, said brain being too busy watching the Olympics. :eek:
 
And is it likely to survive the Doolittle Raid? Might we actually see a Midway after all as the Japanese put aside what passes for their version of strategic logic in favour of avenging the humiliation?
This is a very important question. Even if the plan isn't changed, then the political necessities of defending the airspace of the home islands may make the IJAF's part of an already ludicrously optimistic plan even more difficult...
 
(3) In order to prevent the Royal Navy interfering with the invasion and supply convoys in the South China and Java Seas, it will have to be eliminated or driven off. This will be the task of the IJN, aided by aircraft based in the Celebes and later on Borneo and the DEI. It is estimated that the British have two fleet and one or two light carriers available. In order to attain local superiority, the 5 fleet carriers, as well as a sizeable force of battleships with their own carrier escort will be committed. Since the USN cannot be ignored, once this force has destroyed the British Far Eastern Fleet it will be moved east to do the same to the USN. While the operations are underway against the Royal Navy, the IJN's submarine fleet will cordon off the area to stop any US involvement.
Once yet again the Japanese are looking for the definitive battle to try and completely crush their enemy and take them out of the picture. Two fleet carriers and one or two light carriers available? I think someone is in for a nasty surprise, especially once they add in the submarine forces and air power like the Torbeaus. Looks like the climactic, or at least main penultimate, battle could be a Royal Navy-Imperial Japanese Navy affair. If the Allies can get any sort of prior warning via intercepted messages and broken codes or observers then if could get really interesting. After seeing how Malaya/Burma and Siam turn out this is probably what I shall now be anticipating the most. :)
 
No, don't be ridiculous. They'll be holding the army back to prepare for their invasions and occupations of Narnia, Númenor, and the semi-elemental plane of ranch dressing. Much more practical.

Sounds like someone is a OOTS fan...
 
...

c) That they will still have an army in Malaya by the time the reinforcements get there. Especially since their response to an army in danger of destruction is to remove the commander.

Well, it "worked" for the Nazis.

By worked I mean failed abysmally. It worked for the Allies.
The enemy sacking theiir commanders that is.
 
Just as a quick recap can you confirm how things currently stand? If I'm following correctly Japan still owns coastal China and Hainan island and is nominally allied with Siam. They had originally invaded Burma to some extent but put most of their force into the invasion of Malaya, although now Slim has chucked them out of Burma and has secured the passes into Siam and in Malaya the pocket has been surrounded and cut off with Blamey pushing the infantry and armour into northern Malaya before heading into Siam.

The Philippines has been mostly conquered except for the couple groups of American forces still holding out. Guam and Wake have fallen. In Borneo the Allies cotrol the south and west of the island and the Japanese the north and east, also including the Celebes. Further out east they've also taken Ambon island, Rabaul and the Bismarck achipelago, landed troops on the Louisiade archipelago and made a stab for the northern Solomons, tried for Timor and get their arses kicked, and were only able to land a small force on Bali which is shortly to be lost as well.
 
wow i finally caught up for ttl and i have to say it's really good, also I'm really excided about the potential midway'esc battle in the china sea.

Will the battle be just between RN and IJN or will the USN find a way to get involved as well?:D
 
Will the battle be just between RN and IJN or will the USN find a way to get involved as well?:D

I imagine they'll be too far away in the Central Pacific. Besides, the Wasp is heading for the Med, the Ranger is training up personnel, both Lexingtons have been lost, and the Hornet and her escorting CV (Enterprise?) are on their own unique holiday excursion to the Orient.:p That leaves only two carriers, assumably the Yorktown and Ticonderoga, to cover the whole of the Pacific from Hawaii to New Guinea! About the only American "carrier" likely to "see action" is the old Langely,:) probably ferrying more planes to Java.:cool:
 

GarethC

Donor
...and the Hornet and her escorting CV (Enterprise?) are on their own unique holiday excursion to the Orient.:p
Astro, do Hornet's "escorting vessels" include a second CV? You didn't specify in that update.

It does rather look like you're setting up a second Midway, only bigger, and probably with a night-time curbstomping of the IJN to boot.
 
Astro, do Hornet's "escorting vessels" include a second CV? You didn't specify in that update.

It does rather look like you're setting up a second Midway, only bigger, and probably with a night-time curbstomping of the IJN to boot.

They had one OTL, as no one wanted Hornet to be caught with her planes unable to respond. Remember, they had originally intended to travel to within what would have been Japanese land-based air range before launching, so they would need an active CAP. I merely assumed it would be the OTL Enterprise. But with butterflies and OP preferences, it could be any of the Yorktowns.
 
This is a very important question. Even if the plan isn't changed, then the political necessities of defending the airspace of the home islands may make the IJAF's part of an already ludicrously optimistic plan even more difficult...

Nitpick. There was no IJAF. Army and navy air forces.
 
Errr.. LARGE oil ffields in burma?

Im sure they ranked relatively higher back then, but today they rank 74th in global oil production behind such major oil producers as france, denmark, japan and australia, and i didnt know those guys produced ANY oil.

Besides, any oil shipped from burma has to travel through the indian ocean, which the brits pretty much control at this point.

Surely the japanese would focus on the dei, particularly borneo, which they sort of control now, or at least have a hope of holding. Ok, maybe a poor hope, but burma is even nastier in terms of controlling the sealanes.
I can't easily find any figures on Burmese oil production at the time, the only thing google threw up was a figure of ~3.5 million barrels a year in 1910. Once the fields were repaired post-war I found a figure of 4 million barrels a year on the same fields, so I'd guess production is somewhere around that level.

It's no DEI certainly, but on the positive side the fields have their own refinery and there is a pipeline system in place to move the crude and products about. It would certainly help, if only by being able to supply forces in the region from the refinery without needing shipping from the Home Islands.

For all that I agree the Japanese really should just focus on the DEI, they can't afford additional distractions but the plan appears to consist entirely of distractions.
 
Indeed it was. Massive brainfart on my part. Lord alone knows what I was thinking there. :eek:

I shan't edit that out, but shall leave it a monument to what happens when one types before the brain is engaged, said brain being too busy watching the Olympics. :eek:

"In Xanadu did Kublai Khan,
a stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
through caverns measureless to man
down to a sunless sea"
-Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 1797
 
Actually by Japanese ww2 standards tt’s a reasonable and measured plan. Nice sequential objectives to build up air power, reinforce the army in Thailand, defeat the RN then land in Borneo, then take on the US. No lets scatter ships over 20% of the surface of the globe and launch diversions the enemy has no time to react to.

Apart from the a/c availability how do they intend to bring Somerville to battle. As it stands he can decline to bring the main surface force in and will probably win the build up race at least in pure a/c numbers. Maintenance will take longer but he starts in possession of the pre war facilities and has close to hand an easily trainable population in Aus. And unlike the Japanese on the Celebes he is in easy reach of lunch.

Why commit forward except in support of an offensive against the Celebes which are fairly lightly held I think.

I think either the Japanese plan starts to unravel at point 1 either from allied interdiction or then the septics bomb Tokyo. (anyone noticed the submarine patrol line to keep them out). In any event the IJN need to work out a way to bring Somerville to battle and that usually involves a major invasion convoy.
 
I think either the Japanese plan starts to unravel at point 1 either from allied interdiction or then the septics bomb Tokyo.

Gannt the chartist

Look, I thought it was a one time joke and I let it go. But now it's coming up again. I know for certain that Englishmen, Frenchmen, and Germans don't like to be called Limeys, Frogs, and Krauts, respectively. And frankly, with the possible exception of "Frogs", I can't think of a worse name to refer to people as than a word whose root origin is septic tanks, or sepsis. Maybe it's a term of endearment where you come from, or maybe it was at one time. But it's not here. Try "Yanks" in the future. It's not popular here, but it's not insulting, either.
 
Gannt the chartist

Look, I thought it was a one time joke and I let it go. But now it's coming up again. I know for certain that Englishmen, Frenchmen, and Germans don't like to be called Limeys, Frogs, and Krauts, respectively. And frankly, with the possible exception of "Frogs", I can't think of a worse name to refer to people as than a word whose root origin is septic tanks, or sepsis. Maybe it's a term of endearment where you come from, or maybe it was at one time. But it's not here. Try "Yanks" in the future. It's not popular here, but it's not insulting, either.
Septics is a relatively polite term as well compared to some ;)
 
Gannt the chartist

Look, I thought it was a one time joke and I let it go. But now it's coming up again. I know for certain that Englishmen, Frenchmen, and Germans don't like to be called Limeys, Frogs, and Krauts, respectively. And frankly, with the possible exception of "Frogs", I can't think of a worse name to refer to people as than a word whose root origin is septic tanks, or sepsis. Maybe it's a term of endearment where you come from, or maybe it was at one time. But it's not here. Try "Yanks" in the future. It's not popular here, but it's not insulting, either.
I think it should be self evident from my username that not Brits find the term Limey offensive. I agree on the use of Septic though.
 
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