The Whale has Wings

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abc123

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Pretty much the purple border. Which I added after your post, but before reading it. So we seem to agree. Or are you ruling out Thepha and Sab Yoi? Cutting them in half seems to be a burden on the administrative district system in place. I put a geographic consideration into the purple border in that there is some high ground to hold on the border for each side. Perhaps we should have a plebiscite in Thepha and Sab Yoi?

If we included the north-western border areas of Khok Pho, Kabang and Yaha in the plebiscites too, what if things turned chequerboard? What fun! There should be limits on the fineness of detail to self-determination.

Yes, I agree with that. The idea of plebiscite in mixed areas is good but because of possibility of turning of chequerboard it is IMO better to give half of mixed area to Malaya and half to Thailand. Pretty fair. And insure than nobody doesn't have to remain living in a country he doesn't want to, each country responcible for financing of resettlement of their ethnic compatriots. 2 or 3 years as deadline for opting etc.
 

perfectgeneral

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So the red line is the new border. Do we have a treaty? :D

Using much of the existing border saves moving border posts. Just the red line bit to do. Not exactly as straight as they wanted, but it gets from A to B with the least headaches. If anyone asks (!) the rest was more trouble than it was worth.
 
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General point about the post war pacific settelement that occurred to me randomly is that if Japan surrenders by '44 it will be Roosevelt guiding US policy not Truman. What effect might that have?
 
General point about the post war pacific settelement that occurred to me randomly is that if Japan surrenders by '44 it will be Roosevelt guiding US policy not Truman. What effect might that have?

More important than that is that the Empire is not a minor partner in the Pacific like in OTL ( I know they made a massive effort, but it was really small compared with the US one ) so ITTL Washington will need to count with London in the post war Japan.

I do not predict many changes at all in Japan but if there are troops in Korea ... interesting butterflies, indeed.
 
More important than that is that the Empire is not a minor partner in the Pacific like in OTL ( I know they made a massive effort, but it was really small compared with the US one ) so ITTL Washington will need to count with London in the post war Japan.

I do not predict many changes at all in Japan but if there are troops in Korea ... interesting butterflies, indeed.

Actually, I would qualify that statement a bit. I would say that it is more like the Empire IS the dominant power in Southern Asia, while America WILL BE the dominant power in the Pacific (Ocean). Unless the Allies go for a Japan First war strategy, which is frankly ASB. The Empire has much more $$$, resources, and military power to play with ITTL, but not enough to fight both the Japanese AND the European Axis Powers in ALL OUT Two Front War.

Even Winston is not enough of an Imperialist to risk having Germany collapse and leaving the Continent to the Soviets because he was too busy scooping up Imperial possessions (some of them new) on the other side of the world. Remember, the British can't ASSUME no 1944 collapse by the Germans.

Had something like the July 20th Plot happened successfully PRIOR to D-Day (as the conspirators had originally planned), yet the Third Reich fell into chaos rather than a strong government in control and ready to deal with the West... Winston and FDR could have found themselves up shit's creek with their forces barely able to secure Normandy in a quick uncontested crossing while Stalin swept over the whole of Europe!:eek:

ASB? Probably. For logistical reasons if no other. But this was still something that had to be kept in the minds of Allied leaders.
 
UK Government

Since the last update we have had 5 pages of discussion on the annexation of beachfront property in Thailand. As the UK already occupies the Greek Islands, Red sea, most of the Carribean and is looking at Sicily and Sardinia/Corsica prior to an invasion of the Riveria is someone going to observe how useful a long lease on Majorca would be to support that invasion.

When did Thomas Cook overthrow the Churchill Govt.

Where is the next update.
 

GarethC

Donor
More important than that is that the Empire is not a minor partner in the Pacific like in OTL ( I know they made a massive effort, but it was really small compared with the US one ) so ITTL Washington will need to count with London in the post war Japan.

I do not predict many changes at all in Japan but if there are troops in Korea ... interesting butterflies, indeed.
If Japan surrenders before Germany, will Russia even declare war against Japan at all? Might get a united Korea at the end of it, and no open warfare at all.
 
Since the last update we have had 5 pages of discussion on the annexation of beachfront property in Thailand. As the UK already occupies the Greek Islands, Red sea, most of the Carribean and is looking at Sicily and Sardinia/Corsica prior to an invasion of the Riveria is someone going to observe how useful a long lease on Majorca would be to support that invasion.

When did Thomas Cook overthrow the Churchill Govt.

Where is the next update.

Actually given the normal trends on this thread between updates, it's stayed remarkably on-topic. No mentions of beer, or pork rinds.

Until now... :D
 
Since the last update we have had 5 pages of discussion on the annexation of beachfront property in Thailand. As the UK already occupies the Greek Islands, Red sea, most of the Carribean and is looking at Sicily and Sardinia/Corsica prior to an invasion of the Riveria is someone going to observe how useful a long lease on Majorca would be to support that invasion.

When did Thomas Cook overthrow the Churchill Govt.

You do realise what that statement does to you're life expectancy? Their dreaded assassins, sorry salesmen will be pounding on you're door ant second now.:D:rolleyes:

Where is the next update.

That is a more serious point. ;) Where are you Astrodragon?

Steve
 
Actually, I would qualify that statement a bit. I would say that it is more like the Empire IS the dominant power in Southern Asia, while America WILL BE the dominant power in the Pacific (Ocean). Unless the Allies go for a Japan First war strategy, which is frankly ASB. The Empire has much more $$$, resources, and military power to play with ITTL, but not enough to fight both the Japanese AND the European Axis Powers in ALL OUT Two Front War.

Even Winston is not enough of an Imperialist to risk having Germany collapse and leaving the Continent to the Soviets because he was too busy scooping up Imperial possessions (some of them new) on the other side of the world. Remember, the British can't ASSUME no 1944 collapse by the Germans.

Had something like the July 20th Plot happened successfully PRIOR to D-Day (as the conspirators had originally planned), yet the Third Reich fell into chaos rather than a strong government in control and ready to deal with the West... Winston and FDR could have found themselves up shit's creek with their forces barely able to secure Normandy in a quick uncontested crossing while Stalin swept over the whole of Europe!:eek:

ASB? Probably. For logistical reasons if no other. But this was still something that had to be kept in the minds of Allied leaders.

usertron2020

Would agree completely. Churchill even more than Roosevelt will want to concentrate on Europe so while SEA will have a very strong British presence the Pacific as a whole will have an overwhelming US presence.

Also that both leaders lack our hindsight or detailed military and technological knowledge of what's actually practical. Hence they could easily oscillate between fears of a total Soviet collapse, which was the dominant factor as late as the end of 42 and a sudden Soviet surge to the Atlantic, especially if/when they get the idea internal German unrest could result in civil war. [I fear Roosevelt would be a lot more complacant about this latter threat than Churchill].

Steve
 
Actually, I would qualify that statement a bit. I would say that it is more like the Empire IS the dominant power in Southern Asia, while America WILL BE the dominant power in the Pacific (Ocean). Unless the Allies go for a Japan First war strategy, which is frankly ASB. The Empire has much more $$$, resources, and military power to play with ITTL, but not enough to fight both the Japanese AND the European Axis Powers in ALL OUT Two Front War.

Even Winston is not enough of an Imperialist to risk having Germany collapse and leaving the Continent to the Soviets because he was too busy scooping up Imperial possessions (some of them new) on the other side of the world. Remember, the British can't ASSUME no 1944 collapse by the Germans.

Had something like the July 20th Plot happened successfully PRIOR to D-Day (as the conspirators had originally planned), yet the Third Reich fell into chaos rather than a strong government in control and ready to deal with the West... Winston and FDR could have found themselves up shit's creek with their forces barely able to secure Normandy in a quick uncontested crossing while Stalin swept over the whole of Europe!:eek:

ASB? Probably. For logistical reasons if no other. But this was still something that had to be kept in the minds of Allied leaders.

I agree with you; once the Britain's colonial possessions are secure they'll be happy to leave the bulk of the Pacific war to the USA. They may as has been suggested pick up some new bits of territory and help the Dutch and French with their 'housecleaning' but as the British know full well the main enemy is Nazi Germany.
 
Can someone turn on the Astrodragonsignal again? Where's the latest update? (And yes, I realise the irony of someone like me calling for regular updates... :eek:)
 
Can someone turn on the Astrodragonsignal again? Where's the latest update? (And yes, I realise the irony of someone like me calling for regular updates... :eek:)

calling tha dragon

dragonsignal3.gif
 
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Can someone turn on the Astrodragonsignal again? Where's the latest update? (And yes, I realise the irony of someone like me calling for regular updates... :eek:)

Umm, yes, Cymraeg, the irony is duly noted and filed for future use. Should someone light the Welsh bonfires, too?
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