The Whale has Wings

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Dathi

Would would be very, very nasty, and less dangerous for non-Japanese, would be widespread chemical use against crops. Don't know what they had in the way herbicides at that period but that could be really bad as Japan was unable to produce enough food to feed itself without imports of other supplies anyway. I don't think this would occur however unless the Japanese use chemical weapons against the western powers or possibly the allies learn about their use against the Chinese.

Things could go a lost worse for Japan in TTL as its likely to see a prolonged blockade simply because the western powers think an invasion too costly for them and, for the 1st couple of years at least have an higher priority in Europe.

Steve

steve

Dear good Lord in Heaven, I pray you don't mean the Rainbow herbicides or anything like them?
 
Great update and as always leaves waiting with bated breath for more. :)
Couple of obvious questions. Are there IJN fleet carriers around and will they come running when Taiyo reports the situation? And will the Japanese realize the second strike was from more RN carriers or will they assume that there are simply more aircraft on Java than previously thought? If they do make that assumption and IJN CV's come into the battle it could be really, really bad for the IJN.
 
OTL there was not much if any "agricultural" BW except anthrax during WW2. Also the science of the time had not gotten to the point where even "natural" viruses like smallpox or polio could be grown/cultured for use as BW agents - this is much harder than bacterial agents. The Japanese BW experiments (unit 731) and efforts they made to use it in China made use of dropping insect vectors like fleas that were carriers of various diseases. This was only possible because of the horrendous sanitary conditions in China that with overcrowding, poor sanitation, etc would have disease spread from a small start.

BW in the Pacific theater, either by the Japanese against the western allies or the US/UK against Japan not really happening (incapable in the first case, not useful in the second). CW is another story, very likely the Japanese would have used it against an invasion force.

BTW a BW attack against the USA using those balloons, not going to produce any results and most likely never even noticed...
 
Colossus is sadly most likely to become an artificial reef, but again if you're going to lose a CV it's preferable that it's one of the CVL's and not a fleet carrier. The British have really screwed up the Japanese invasion plans and they've lost more valuable ships and supplies in a diversionary action when they really should be throwing the kitchen sink at Malaya. We are getting closer to the point when the penny finally drops in Tokyo and that is going to be something to enjoy! :D
 
From the RN point of veiw it is more important to save the remaining experienced crew from Colussus than it is the ship itself. I can see all crew other than essential Damage control and engeering dept being lifted off whether she sinks or not. Like wise her air group, it is the aircrew who are valuble rather than the aircraft. Therfore ditch or bale out whilst there is still daylight and your friendly ships are waiting for you, do not risk flying to Java for a night landing on an unkown field even if you can find it. One CVL in exchange for two and a large proportion of an invasion fleet is an exchange the allies would consider pretty good.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
From the RN point of veiw it is more important to save the remaining experienced crew from Colussus than it is the ship itself. I can see all crew other than essential Damage control and engeering dept being lifted off whether she sinks or not. Like wise her air group, it is the aircrew who are valuble rather than the aircraft. Therfore ditch or bale out whilst there is still daylight and your friendly ships are waiting for you, do not risk flying to Java for a night landing on an unkown field even if you can find it. One CVL in exchange for two and a large proportion of an invasion fleet is an exchange the allies would consider pretty good.

You want them to bail out over sea? IF they are going to jump they're much better of over land.
 
given the choice of bailing out over jungle in the dark, not knowing where you are exactly and bailing out in daylight/dusk close to a freindly destroyer/cruiser which has a sea boat ready to rescue you, I know i would be checking My Mae west, opening my canopy and taking to the silk pretty darn quick.
But thats my choice:)
 

Hyperion

Banned
So scratch two light carriers and two cruisers, and no telling how many more transports.

I take if it the Enterprise and Lexington don't get into something with them, the three Japanese carriers to the north of New Guinea might be getting recall orders soon.
 
given the choice of bailing out over jungle in the dark, not knowing where you are exactly and bailing out in daylight/dusk close to a freindly destroyer/cruiser which has a sea boat ready to rescue you, I know i would be checking My Mae west, opening my canopy and taking to the silk pretty darn quick.
But thats my choice:)

sonofpegasus

Agreed if over jungle. However given that the attack on Colossus occurred about the same time as they were hunting for the Japanese landing force north of Java their got to travel a fair way. If so is there time for them to be vectored to an airbase and that prepared for taking them? Do agree that the aircrew are a hell of a lot more important than the a/c but even a night landing at an airfield with some lights is probably going to be safer than ditching at sea in the night.

Steve
 
steve

Dear good Lord in Heaven, I pray you don't mean the Rainbow herbicides or anything like them?

usertron2020

If you mean agent orange and related substances I suspect their some way from development. However presumably some forms of herbicides would be available at this point. It would be very nasty but given the desire to avoid a costly invasion of a still defiant Japan, especially with the European war still on-going, I could see it been an attractive option for allied planners.

Steve
 
So scratch two light carriers and two cruisers, and no telling how many more transports.

I take if it the Enterprise and Lexington don't get into something with them, the three Japanese carriers to the north of New Guinea might be getting recall orders soon.

And don't forget Somerville knows about the third carrier and is more than happy to launch another strike. At the same time you have a limited Japanese force on Java already short of supplies and with no air cover about to run into defenders with those Stuart tanks that might as well be Challenger IIs for all the Japanese can do to stop them. If there are IJN CVs in the vicinity there going to be getting some fairly desperate demands to come and help and that just won't end well for the IJN.
 

Hyperion

Banned
This is probably going to be the situation where the entire Japanese plan comes off the rails now.

In Malaya, Yamashita was having problems, and the RN was sinking a few transports, but the issues there where mainly an army issue.

In the South China Sea and a few other instances, the Japanese have been taking a beating, but that was mainly a naval loss, no army losses.

Here, a large number of Japanese warships have been sunk or damaged, and the bulk of a Japanese division has been gutted, and the remaining part of the division is going to be wiped out in the next couple of weeks.

Heads are going to roll, and Yamamoto is going to be sitting there telling them that he told them so.
 
usertron2020

If you mean agent orange and related substances I suspect their some way from development. However presumably some forms of herbicides would be available at this point. It would be very nasty but given the desire to avoid a costly invasion of a still defiant Japan, especially with the European war still on-going, I could see it been an attractive option for allied planners.

Steve

Turns out 2,4d, the basis of agent orange was developed during the war in britain, offered for comercial sale in 46 and sold in a major way starting in 48. This kills dicots, leaving grasses ,(grains) alone.

Interestingly, agent blue was discovered quite a bit before, and it works on rice and other grains. Its a simpler arsenical compound.

This is an information post. I am NOT advocating the use of tbese compounds.
 
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