The Whale has Wings

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America has superb mini valves and electronic production on a large scale to offer. If Radar and R/T sets are ordered as L-L it might prove difficult to build up the UK electronics industry post-war.

Umm... maybe im wrong, i was taught a very imperialcentric view of wwii, but wasnt british tube tech rather advanced over the us?
 
Umm... maybe im wrong, i was taught a very imperialcentric view of wwii, but wasnt british tube tech rather advanced over the us?

Dathi

I think both countries had their areas of expertise. More a matter that the US, without being constantly in the front line and with much greater resources was more able to turn ideas into actual production.

Steve
 
March 22nd

It is officially announced in Australia that John Curtin will officially take over as Prime Minister 'until such time as Robert Menzies has recovered'. There has been considerable debate in the Liberal party overnight about how to handle this; one part of the party wanted to use this as a reason to call an election, which they are confident of winning, but in the end were outvoted by more cautious elements.

They pointed out that calling an election due to the collapse of Menzies while Australia is under attack would look like blatant opportunism, whereas waiting, and showing that they can do an even better job (especially as it is felt that the tide is turning in favour of Australia) will allow them to gather the middle ground votes who will be swayed by the display of statesmanship and putting Australia first, thus giving them a much stronger majority if they go to the country next year.

Curtin announces that no changes will be made in Australian policy as a result of Menzie's collapse, but in private he has used his new office to stress that unless an Australian is appointed as head of the Australian theatre the Liberal party might have to withdraw from the coalition. This is part of the strategy to show that a Liberal PM can lead Australia in the war successfully.

It fair to say that Australian politics were very confusing in those days... BUT.

The United Australia Party was Menzies' party. The Liberal Party of Australia only came into existence in 1944, following the UAP's curbstomping in 1943.(1) It was, in 1942, in a coalition with another political force known as the Country Party under Arthur Fadden (a loose association of regional parties later known as the Nationals).

I know it's confusing, as normally you think of a British style parliamentary democracy to be Conservative/Tory, Liberal, and Labour/Socialist. But this was not the case in Australia in WWII.

John Curtin's allegiance was to the Labour Party, and he was a dedicated Socialist.

So maybe a little editing is in order?:eek:

The RAF and Somerville are coordinating attacks from Java, however these are put temporarily on hold as a USAAF Catalina finally finds the Japanese heavy support group. Before the Catalina is forced to take cover in cloud (already slightly damaged by a Zero), the pilot reports 'at least two carriers and two battleships plus supporting ships'. In fact the battleships are cruisers - this misidentification was a consistent feature for both sides in air reconnaissance.

Considering the difference in size between US Treaty Cruisers and IJN heavy cruisers (who never really paid much attention to those pesky treaty limits) it's no wonder the pilot thought he was seeing battleships.:rolleyes:

1) It was Menzies who helped to found Australia's Liberal Party.
 
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Dathi

I think both countries had their areas of expertise. More a matter that the US, without being constantly in the front line and with much greater resources was more able to turn ideas into actual production.

Steve

Indeed. The US started out in 1939 with NO AFV's to speak of, yet thanks to the power of Detroit, even before the US was in the war they were delivering stopgap M-3's to Egypt so much better than what the poor Tommies had that the British tank crews were in tears (of joy).:)

As opposed to the complete and total POS Mark XIV torpedoes being turned out by NTS Rhode Island.:mad:
 
It fair to say that Australian politics were very confusing in those days... BUT.

The United Australia Party was Menzies' party. The Liberal Party of Australia only came into existence in 1944, following the UAP's curbstomping in 1943.(1) It was, in 1942, in a coalition with another political force known as the Country Party under Arthur Fadden (a loose association of regional parties later known as the Nationals).

I know it's confusing, as normally you think of a British style parliamentary democracy to be Conservative/Tory, Liberal, and Labour/Socialist. But this was not the case in Australia in WWII.

John Curtin's allegiance was to the Labour Party, and he was a dedicated Socialist.

So maybe a little editing is in order?:eek:



Considering the difference in size between US Treaty Cruisers and IJN heavy cruisers (who never really paid much attention to those pesky treaty limits) it's no wonder the pilot thought he was seeing battleships.:rolleyes:

1) It was Menzies who helped to found Australia's Liberal Party.


Sorry, I always find Australian politics confusing.
Its because they are upside down....
 
Indeed. The US started out in 1939 with NO AFV's to speak of, yet thanks to the power of Detroit, even before the US was in the war they were delivering stopgap M-3's to Egypt so much better than what the poor Tommies had that the British tank crews were in tears (of joy).:)

Not this time...:)
More likely looking at the Grants they have been sent out to the Med with them looking at what the British have (thanks in particular to Canada :)) and wimpering softly....:D
 
I do realize the war will be over before even the first Centurion rolls of the drawing board, but will we see something like the Comet rip the Panzerwaffe a new one?
 
They are the big ones.

There are a lot more: Aquitania, Mauretania Isle de France, Union Castle, Canadian Pacific, Bermudas, Royal Mail Lines, anything called Highland. Many of the refigerated meat transports pre war doubled as liners with a heavy first class passneger complement (500 passengers) . These could carry 1500-5000 troops as a ferry, fewer if they were combat ready or near so and pre LST some are listed as invasion transports.

A lot of similar ships were taken up as AMC and returned to trade later in the war with things looking up there may not be such a need for emergency cruisers.

All other things aside I could see little need for convoy protection from say Freetown - India. But I think that is the case OTL anyway - the convoys were there because of Italians in Eritrea, then the Japanese then (from April 42) when U cruisers start operating. The real advantage comes from not having the round Africa convoys to Egypt or fighting them through the Med.

The Queens and Normandie are the only ones I know that are fast enough to operate without an escort. Most of the others are not fast enough to prevent a U-Boat from targeting them. Though there may be an exception or two. If the ship competed for the Blue Riband, it's a probable option. If the Italians can be turned, then SS Rex may become available (The Germans captured her in OTL and she was sunk by the RAF).
 
Not this time...:)
More likely looking at the Grants they have been sent out to the Med with them looking at what the British have (thanks in particular to Canada :)) and wimpering softly....:D

OK, then. We'll just go for Japan First, and stay out of European affairs completely. Good Luck!:D
 
Yamashita has pushed his way through those weakpoints in the line, a final moment of hope for the IJA forcebefore the hammer falls. ;)
 
Legion.

The origional point (Stevep's i think) was in connection with the absent surface threat and more air cover. Aquitania/Mauretania for sure sailed solo in low threat environments - low threat meaning knowing Kormoran was out there looking for you.

If someone wanted to speed up personnel reinforcement to Europe there are a lot of ships capable of 20kt sustained speed. I am not saying it would be my first choice as passenger but I think 20kt solo (apart from the Stirling/Sunderland/Liberator overhead) may be a better option that slowing down so 12 kt to be part of a convoy. Especially if its during one of the code reading phases so main U-boat deployments can be avoided.
 
The Good thing about US tank situation is that when they find out they will be in the med with access to CW supplies.

Including Hemp products!!!

And pork scratchings for the munchies
 
Japanese admiral,: your ships head to Bali.
Captain: Bali, hai!
*Groan* Bad Dathi, bad! That's just wrong. :D

For such awful punnage you're punishment shall be no pork scratchings or real ale for a month, only lager - or worse yet American mass produced stuff. *shudder*


I do realize the war will be over before even the first Centurion rolls of the drawing board, but will we see something like the Comet rip the Panzerwaffe a new one?
Like a version of the Black Prince with meteor engine, maybe? :)
What's the current situation regarding tank development and production or the British? As best I can track in this timeline they're currently got the Canadian Ram/Grizzly with 6-pdr and Crusader with 2-pdr for the cruisers and the improved Valentine with Grizzly turret for the infantry tanks. In the near future the Cromwell cruiser tank is stated in August 1941 as being 'available soon' and the Churchill infantry tank is under development with Grizzly-Valentine acting as stand-in until then. Now the Churchill appears to be coming along at roughly the same time as our timeline but the Cromwell seems to be a couple years ahead of schedule as it were. What's prompted this, is it thanks to there being no invasion scare and not having to keep building already designed equipment rather than look at development better stuff or something else? And not being much of a tank-head what's the advantage of the Black Prince over the Comet if you stick a Rolls-Royce Meteor in the thing? A quick search of a few of the sites seems to throw up a bit of confusion as some talk of it being a prototype for the Churchill and others as being developed separately in parallel.

The only things I'd be concerned with would be are there enough engines to go around at this point since the Merlin was in such high demand that is was hard to meet it early on, and with rolling over the Italians and Germans in North Africa that there's enough impetus to keep them developing new models and guns like the 17-pdr, although you're pretty good at keeping things realistic so I'm guessing you've got the reasoning all worked out. :)
 

perfectgeneral

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Like a version of the Black Prince with meteor engine, maybe? :)



I was hoping for sloping.


The heavy universal 50 ton (Centurion Mk1 - immediately above) and medium universal 30 ton (T23E3 - Top).
Next generation, after Black Prince and Sherman maybe? This hardly matters until the light scouting tanks that support infantry run into medium to heavy trouble.

The most immediate need for armour is probably a light tank with a dozer blade up front.

Image1260.jpg
 
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you can leave it to the USAAF (Just like otl ;) )

While those US airmen certainly deserved the Distinguished Flying Cross, it was much too late in the war to make a difference regarding the delivery of the Pershing. I honestly wonder if that prick McNair would have lived long enough, he would have had the Sherman as America's mainstay tank through not just Korea, but Vietnam as well!:eek: "The War on Terror will be won or lost with the M-4!" says the 128 year old McNair.:(

BTW, how did the Centurion and Pershing compare?
 
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