The Whale has Wings

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Sior

Banned
We may well see tanks with 25-pdr and 17-pdr guns in TTL....:) :)

When one gun is not enough!
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Just in time to face the King Tigers.:eek:
Hm, less than 500 produced, and not that many sent west. A challenge certainly, but hardly an insurmountable one, especially with a decent gun

Sorry, but you only mentioned the Firefly, and I was talking not just about firepower but survivability as well.
Firepower is survivability to a degree, and the Germans learned soon enough that logistics are as important as tactics, and logistics dictates that simpler and more universal is better.
 
Tanks losses - before getting your underpantenn (sturn or otherwise) in a twist about tanks - check out some other boards. Stealing shamelessly the guys here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=81359 if that does not work google German Tank strength Normandy.


‘Overall cause of loss for tanks varies according to time period and the reports cited. Thus, according to WO 291/1186 in the ETO it was:

Mines 22.1%
AT guns 22.7%
Tanks 14.5%
SP Guns 24.4%
Bazooka 14.2%
Other 2.1%

This may be compared to a sample of 506 US First Army tanks lost (destroyed and damaged) between 6 June and 30 November 1944.

Mines 18.2%
AT/Tank guns 46.2%
Artillery 7.3%
Mortars 1.8%
Bazooka 13.6%
Other 12.9%’

In June - August German tank losses due to AP shot ( either from an AT gun or a tank TD ) were 48% which is pretty similar to the 1st army sample.

As far as loss ratios are concerned there is a an argument that tank vs. tank losses in Normandy could be anything from 2:1 vs. Tiger/Panther and 1:1 in all tank vs. tank encounters. There is an interesting point that actual write offs in Goodwood - the epitome of allied incompetence in armour - is 493 allied (35% of total )vs. 85 German (25%) .

Except 132 of the brit losses were recovered and repaired within 24 hours (and all an unknown number repaired after 24 hours I think its 146 TWO) and the German number excludes any recovered and subsequently repaired.

The idea that tanks in NW Europe were the great tank killers and that the Germans had a massive advantage is somewhat mistaken.

And 490 Tiger II (total production) will not/did not affect the outcome
 
That's 490, less those lost to the Soviets (at least, those lost when facing the Soviets, since quite a number were blown up by their own crews after breaking down or getting stuck).
 
I just realized that we are arguing about the best tanks for use in Normandy; when we are still in freaking Malaya! :)
Actually, at least some of the updates bring word from the Eastern Front, and the Soviets are getting Lend Lease Shermans aren't they?
 
March 19th

17 Kittyhawk fighters are flown off from Townsville, Queensland, on their way to Port Moresby, staging by way of Cookstown and Horn Island.

Reports from eastern Borneo indicate to British Intelligence that the attack on Java is now 'imminent'. Travel in Borneo is extremely difficult due to the almost non-existent road network, but the British have been building up small forces in the jungle in anticipation; they will be used to cause the maximum disruption to the Japanese reinforcement convoys which are expected to use the Borneo ports. Good news for Somerville is that the light carrier HMAS Melbourne is finally out of dock after having been damaged underwater in the battle of the South China Sea. He intends to deploy two forces, one north and one south of Java, each having two fleet and one light carrier; his other light carrier, HMAS Brisbane, will remain working out of Darwin for the time being. The carriers will be aided by land based planes where possible. He hopes to be able to hit at least part of the invasion force, and certainly follow-up forces. His submarines have been redeployed in the area as well. It is unclear what the IJN will provide in terms on a naval escort, but this is expected to be quite heavy. As a result, Somerville has added a couple of fast battleships to each task force.

The RAF and the French Air force have been steadily attacking Italian targets over the last month. Targets have included the mainland, the island of Corsica and Sardinia, and especially the island of Sicily. The Italian high command has ordered additional troops to Sicily, which they consider a target for the allies. Meanwhile planning and preparation for an amphibious assault has reached a high degree of readiness; some 12 Imperial and French divisions (including two Armoured divisions) are available, although shipping will restrict the initial landing sizes.

Bomber command has fixed the issues with the new Coventry bomber, and is getting regular deliveries of the Lancaster and Mosquito bombers. While the main force attacks Italy (with an occasional diversion to a French target), the new units are training for the planned Ruhr offensive.

March 20th

Major General Wainwright learns that he has been promoted to the rank of Lieutenant General and that Washington has placed him in command of all U.S. Forces in the Philippines.

Australian Prime Minister Menzies suffers a breakdown in Parliament. Doctors report that it is due to the stress of his job during the war, and while it is expected he will eventually make a full recovery, he will not be able to undertake any duties for at least three months. The Deputy Prime Minister, Curtiss, will take over the post of Prime Minister.

In Tokyo, The navy minister, Admiral Shimada says that in view of the Allies' "retaliation and hatred", Japan will no longer follow the recognized rules of sea warfare.

March 21st

US forces start a retreat to the heavily fortified island of Corregidor in Manila Bay.
Lieutenant General George H. Brett, Commanding General of U.S. Army Forces in Australia, assumes command of all Allied air forces in Australia. This specifically excludes all FAA aircraft operating out of Australia, as well as RAF/RAAF aircraft under the navy's operational control.

During the late morning, the Japanese Eastern Invasion Force headed for Java from the Phillipines was found northeast of Java, by a Dutch Dornier flying boat which shadowed them for several hours. The Dornier then carried out an attack on the destroyer HIJMS Amatsukaze, releasing only one bomb which fell about 500 yards ahead of its intended target. This attack was followed by two B-17's dropping their six bombs from 13.000 feet. Two of the bombs fell some 500 yards short of the destroyer HIJMS Hatsukaze.

The size of this convoy (carrying the Japanese 48th Division) convinces Allied command that this is a full-strength invasion fleet aimed at Java. The RAF and RAAF torpedo planes are readied for a strike as soon as fighter cover can be arranged, and army units are put on alert. The Allies now have a considerable force on Java - about 25,000 Dutch and local troops, two brigades of the 8th Australian division, with 30 tanks attached from 1st Armoured in Malaya, and the British 51st Division, as well as about 1,000 US ground troops and considerable numbers running and defending the airbases. The Dutch troops are of variable quality; their training was poor, but insistence by Alexander that this had to be improved has led to some improvements. The Dutch also have a force of US Stuart tanks available.

Somerville's main carrier force is east of Singapore, consisting of the fleet carriers HMS Implacable and HMS Illustrious, the light carrier HMAS Melbourne and the Battleships KGV and Richelieu, plus escorts. He also has a cruiser force further east, with the light carrier HMS Colossus for cover (as well as fighter support from Java itself). There are also a number of submarines, mainly British and American, in the area the Japanese fleet will have to go through. He asks the RAF for as many reconnaissance flights as possible, as he is sure there is a heavy IJN escort for the invasion force and wants to know where it is.

Alexander also puts the Imperial forces in Malaya on alert - he suspects the Japanese will attack in the north, hoping his command and particularly the RAF will be distracted at Java. He has also requested 40 tanks from Burma to replace the ones sent to Java. Currently supplies to Burma from shipments originally intended for Russia have left the Armoured Brigade their both fully equipped and with a useful tank reserve. As it seems unlikely a major Japanese offensive will head into Burma in the immediate future, he thinks the tank reserve will be more useful in Malaya. He would have preferred the 1st Australian Armoured Division, but this will take some weeks to arrive and have modifications made for jungle conditions.

The train carrying General MacArthur's party heads south from Alice Springs. reporters at Darwin have finally got copy through to their papers concerning the nature of the Generals wound. This causes considerable amusement in Australia.
 
So we're gearing up for 'round one' at Java even as MacArthur descends into public humiliation. What more could you ask for from an update? :)
 

Sior

Banned
maybe some 32lb landmattress rocket warheads ;)

edit: and can also mount a hedgehog on a tank, thats 65 pounds a piece :D

hedgehog.jpg

Done that!
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Sherman Tulip Welsh Guards Holland!
pic2.jpg

A British Staghound mounting eight 5 inch Land Mattress artillery rockets.
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
Getting back to events in the Far East, and away from the debate about Tanks, how close are we to a Japanese meltdown? We with hindsight can see just how different events are in comparison to OTL. The Japanese will as yet be very pleased with the results so far, they not having any idea of how much better they could have done. To them their achievements will appear stunning. They have managed to sink a major part of the American fleet, for very little loss to themselves. While their invasion of the Philippians is going well and according to plan, even if events elsewhere have seen some minor setbacks. Their basic plan appears to be on track, and their principal enemy is in disarray.

It should always be remembered that the Japanese didn’t see ether the British, French or Dutch, as their major foe. They were far more concerned with the Chinese, Russians and Americans, all of whom presented in their eyes a bigger threat. And they were to an extent correct in this assumption, as without American support and engaged as they were in a major conflict with Germany, none of the three were free to deploy out east the full weight of their forces.

We can see that the scattergun approach, which was so successful IOTL, is now beginning to fail, and will in time prove to be an Achilles heel for the Japanese. One that will allow the British lead coalition in the Far East once events stabilise; to deal with the various threats in a systematic way. By taking them on one at a time, while by strangling Japanese logistics, and thus reducing the effectiveness of Japanese forces who are not engaged in major operations, and just being held in place. And once the allied forces in the Far East move from being reactive to proactive, going to give the allies a major advantage. As it is they, who will be the ones operating on internal lines of communications, while the Japanese will be the ones forced to rely on tortuous supply routes.

The next few weeks should see the advantage swing from the Japanese to the allies, as one by one their plans go pear shaped. IOTL the Japanese had a limited time line to achieve their objectives, and this was known to them, even if they tended to ignore this unwelcome fact. Each and every day that things do not progress as fast as they did IOTL, is a day that the Japanese come closer to disaster. And without the buffer that they developed IOTL, the collapse will be faster than it was.

Mention has been made of the enormous difficulties that would ensue should an attack be attempted from Burma into what is present day Laos. Yes this would present problems of supply for the British, if they were to attempt a major invasion by this route. But if all they do is a Chindit type operation, it is the Japanese who will be most disadvantaged. Similarly in Malaya, once the British go onto the offensive, the lack of a Japanese strategic reserve will see them facing a rapid collapse, as they do not have forces to contain a breakthrough, if one is achieved. Nor are their forces sufficiently mobile to be able to redeploy from their present positions.

It is eminently possible that all the Japanese gains in the Far East other than in FIC, could be neglected by the end of 1942, and wouldn’t that take us into a very different world.
 
What more could you ask for from an update? :)
The next one? ;)


Sherman Tulip Welsh Guards Holland!
The Tulip system, basically a pair of 60lb RP-3 rockets mounted either side of the turret, is an interesting idea. Whilst pretty much useless against other tanks or moving targets they were highly valued for their explosive power in attacking fixed positions. Pretty simple system all told, triggered electronically from inside by the commander, after testing out the initial missiles they realised that they needed then to be producing more thrust when launched to be at least somewhat accurate so rather than do anything fancy they simply made the wire that held the missiles in place after they'd been ignited thicker so it took a little longer to snap thanks to the increased thrust. Not sure how well it would of turned out for the tank if the missiles took a direct hit though.
 
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