The Western Roman Empire in Exile

[procrastinating2much]

So, what if Britannia had been developed more during its time as a province? Maybe if, at its peak, Rome had managed to make temporary peace with tribes at least in the south to build up a solid Latin speaking population and large cities. During the gradual collapse, the Romans hold onto the island instead of retreating, seeing it an important economic province instead of a wild frontier. When Italy faced invasion during the Gothic Wars, what if Stilicho, Honorius' guardian and competent general, had made preparations to evacuate the entire Roman government to London before his assassination? How would this Roman state survive with only Britannia left? If at least the south was more Romanised, could a Roman Empire successor state similar to Byzantium thrive, remaining isolated from European politics?

I'm trying to write a timeline where this is the case, and Rome survives in some form until at least the mid 6th century (because realistically, they still have all the odds stacked against them). I figured there would probably be some form of division between tribes of Britain supporting the Romans, such as the Catullauvani in Superior, and ones that aim to bring it down, such as the Brigantes. So I imagined a sort of civil war in 550AD. I have thought and researched a lot into it but I am probably missing stuff!

So what I've tried to show here is the division of Britons in 550AD, under the Emperor Honorius III (I got creative with the names as you can see). I also tried to think a bit about areas of support for the Emperor so I can begin to imagine where areas of conflict would occur, and whereabouts it would begin to collapse.

(Anyways, small notes: the Saxons mostly came to Britain in the power vacuum that followed the collapse of the Roman Empire, so without its fall in Britain at least, this probably wouldn't have occurred.)

This is my first post here and I'm not feeling too bad about how it's turned out, and I want to develop it a wee bit! Let me know if I messed anything up haha

 

[ThatOneGuy]

Are the Roman remnants confined to simply Britannia?

 

[procrastinating2much]

Are the Roman remnants confined to simply Britannia?

Yeah that’s all that remains of the Western a Roman Empire. Gothic Kingdoms now control Italy and Spain, and the Franks control north Gaul. Byzantium is doing alright though, Europe is pretty much identical to OTL

 

[piratedude]

The dumnonni seemed to have reached some sort of understanding with rome in OTL, so i would see them as being at least neutral towards rome in exile, rather than outright against them. In time, with a much closer and stronger Roman presence, i can see them coming into the fold.

Edit: assuming they don't fick it up at least

 

[procrastinating2much]

The dumnonni seemed to have reached some sort of understanding with rome in OTL, so i would see them as being at least neutral towards rome in exile, rather than outright against them. In time, with a much closer and stronger Roman presence, i can see them coming into the fold.

That’s interesting I didn’t know that! I figured due to the history of conflict then there would be a consistent war between them, but if they did come to an understanding they most likely would be a minor tribe in the Roman camp, thanks

 

[Arkenfolm]

Why would they not evacuate to Carthage, among the largest cities in the empire, capital of a very wealthy province, and the perfect place to stage your reconquest of Rome from? Was the historical irony too much to bear?

 

[ThatOneGuy]

With Roman power, legions and any refugees flooding the province I would assume any local resistance would be crushed quickly. Thats also assuming that the Roman's are not able to find out about any planned revolts beforehand from their native informants.

 

[VirginiaStronk]

Wasn't there also a Rome in Dalmatia? That's much worse placement than Tunis, but if ERE got off its ass to help maybe they could help it.

 

[darthfanta]

SNIP

As others mentioned,Africa is a much logical choice than somewhere in Britain.Britain was never a rich province.It was a net loss.It’s why the so called British emperors had to sail across the Channel to Gaul and attempt to march on Italy.The local resources alone would have never sufficed to support the legions based there.

Why would they not evacuate to Carthage, among the largest cities in the empire, capital of a very wealthy province, and the perfect place to stage your reconquest of Rome from? Was the historical irony too much to bear?

This.

 

[piratedude]

.It’s why the so called British emperors had to sail across the Channel to Gaul and attempt to march on Italy.

Except Carausius, who seemed to be just fine staying were he was at.

 

[Gandalf553]

What will happen to the Saxons? If they don't go to Britain, then where would they go? Or would they go anywhere for that matter?

 

[darthfanta]

What will happen to the Saxons? If they don't go to Britain, then where would they go? Or would they go anywhere for that matter?

Stay in Saxony.

 

[Magnum]

Why would they not evacuate to Carthage, among the largest cities in the empire, capital of a very wealthy province, and the perfect place to stage your reconquest of Rome from? Was the historical irony too much to bear?

The future Pope Gregory I, son of a former Senator and Prefect of Rome, along with his patrician family, moved to their estates in Sicily when shit hit the fan during Justinian's reconquest.

 

[procrastinating2much]

With Roman power, legions and any refugees flooding the province I would assume any local resistance would be crushed quickly. Thats also assuming that the Roman's are not able to find out about any planned revolts beforehand from their native informants.

Yeah that’s true and they probably would face very little resistance relatively speaking from Britain for the first century, but after so many years then surely Celts using Roman equipment and guerrilla tactics would begin to pose a threat, especially in the north where there is less security. By the end of the Roman Empire, Rome also used a mostly barbarian army, and this would also probably be the case in Britain, so many of these tribes would have knowledge on how to challenge Rome.

 

[procrastinating2much]

Why would they not evacuate to Carthage, among the largest cities in the empire, capital of a very wealthy province, and the perfect place to stage your reconquest of Rome from? Was the historical irony too much to bear?

Interesting point but the Vandals posed a threat to Carthage during the fall of the Empire. I think it’s probably likely that Stilicho would have recognised this and decided Britain would be easier to defend.

 

[procrastinating2much]

Wasn't there also a Rome in Dalmatia? That's much worse placement than Tunis, but if ERE got off its ass to help maybe they could help it.

Nah, the ERE was pretty stretched thin with the Goths etc. I’m thinking that area would be conquered by barbarians easily, I understand that the terrain would be hard to traverse but overall it seems like the region was just too susceptible to invasion by organised armies.

 

[The Professor]

Stay in Saxony.

Unlikely when you consider usage of Germanic tribes as auxiliaries and the reduction of local population due to plague.
What a unified administration would do is limit Angle and Saxon settlement along the east coast and probably promote earlier christianisation.
See these maps for the Germanic settlement OTL.

 

[procrastinating2much]

Unlikely when you consider usage of Germanic tribes as auxiliaries and the reduction of local population due to plague.
What a unified administration would do is limit Angle and Saxon settlement along the east coast and probably promote earlier christianisation.
See these maps for the Germanic settlement OTL.

Would Rome not be more likely to recruit tribes from Britain instead of recruiting from Germany, especially if those tribes were Latin speaking/more Romanised?

 

[The Professor]

Would Rome not be more likely to recruit tribes from Britain instead of recruiting from Germany, especially if those tribes were Latin speaking/more Romanised?

Not really. OTL those were the same tribes that kept rebelling, hence why Britain had so many legions in the first place!
And if they're recruited they won't get based in an area they could have/build a powerbase in anyway.

 

[Gwachiko]

This has the potential to be one of the best timelines ever.