The Welsh in 867 AD

[Dirk_Pitt]

What would they have called themselves? Welsh seems too modern to me.

 

[Derek Pullem]

What would they have called themselves? Welsh seems too modern to me.

Britons <filler>

 

[Lindseyman]

Welsh is Old English/Saxon for foreigner (ie not one of us). They definately would NOT have called themselves that!

 

[Cymraeg]

No way that we would have named ourselves after an English insult. Cymry makes sense. It means, roughly, Brotherhood.

 

[Dirk_Pitt]

No way that we would have named ourselves after an English insult. Cymry makes sense. It means, roughly, Brotherhood.

What would the culture be called? Brythonic?


And what would their Monarchial title be?

Sorry, I'm not very well versed in pre Anglo-Saxon Invasion Britain.

I'm using this knowledge, by the way, for a Aberffraw Gwynedd CKII+ AAR.

I figured it'd be fun to use the Customization DLC to add a bit of flavor.

 

[Alex Richards]

If you're interested in mods, the Historical Immersion Project (including the SWMH map, VIET and NBRT+) has a lot of information on this sort of thing.

Even if you don't end up using it for the AAR, they've got a lot of specific culture localisations especially in the British Isles which you might find useful.

 

[Danth]

The last kingdom by Bernard Cornwall is your answer
You can buy it in sainsburies for a quid and it has several references to the welsh (Britons) and their kingdoms as well as the name they called England etc

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

And what would their Monarchial title be?

Tywysog, or prince in English, was the most common title of Welsh rulers in the Middle Ages, but at the time you specified the most powerful ruler in Wales used the title "King of the Britons". Both the terms Cymry and Britons were used by the people of Wales to describe themselves.

 

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

the name they called England

Today it seems to be Lloegr, but did they use another name then?

 

[Sior]

Today it seems to be Lloegr, but did they use another name then?

English = Saesneg

 

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

Yes, but since they use different names for the country and its inhabitants, one might assume that the name for England is older, while the name for English is younger, and that it stems from a deep desire to rectify the situation and reconquer the country, or at least some reluctance to accept defeat.

 

[Lindseyman]

Lloegr is certainly on the signs when they let you out of Wales free at the Severn Bridge

 

[Elfwine]

Yes, but since they use different names for the country and its inhabitants, one might assume that the name for England is older, while the name for English is younger, and that it stems from a deep desire to rectify the situation and reconquer the country, or at least some reluctance to accept defeat.

If I'm not mistaken, Lloeger refers to England as the "lost lands", and Saesneg is like the Scots Sassenach - Saxon.

Nothing about older or younger necessarily.

 

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

Lost lands

Ah, so that's it, then. I have not seen any Welsh etymologies, so I had no idea.

 

[Herzen's love-child]

If I'm not mistaken, Lloeger refers to England as the "lost lands", and Saesneg is like the Scots Sassenach - Saxon.

Nothing about older or younger necessarily.

The Etymology of the word "Lloeger" seems unknown. "Lost lands" has been but one proposal. Perhaps popularly so among some of the Cymry.

http://www.cumbraek.co.uk/celt_lloegr.html

 

[Elfwine]

The Etymology of the word "Lloeger" seems unknown. "Lost lands" has been but one proposal. Perhaps popularly so among some of the Cymry.

http://www.cumbraek.co.uk/celt_lloegr.html

Interesting.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Welsh is Old English/Saxon for foreigner (ie not one of us). They definately would NOT have called themselves that!

Which takes some big ceilliaus when you think about it. The Saxons occupy their country, expand into their territory, and then call them the foreigners.

 

[Elfwine]

Which takes some big ceilliaus when you think about it. The Saxons occupy their country, expand into their territory, and then call them the foreigners.

They are the foreigners from a Saxon POV, whether the Saxons are invading or not, though. It makes more sense than calling all Western Europeans Franji.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

They are the foreigners from a Saxon POV, whether the Saxons are invading or not, though. It makes more sense than calling all Western Europeans Franji.

It's the Ugly American trope, or in this case the Ugly Saxon.

 

[Elfwine]

It's the Ugly American trope, or in this case the Ugly Saxon.

And I disagree - as stated, they'd be the foreigners from a Saxon POV whether the Saxons took (part of) Britannia (not a Cyrmic term either) or not.

What would you have the Saxons refer to the Cymry (used to refer to those outside what became England in this statement)? "Neighbors"?

It's not a pejorative for Wotan's sake.