Well no, because there's no sign so far that either group is going to run the country, it's just that one is clearly better, or more accurately less bad, than the other. I should point out that this is in terms off running the country, obviously OTL the Weather Underground is worse, what with actually bombing things.
The Way the Wind Blows: The Collapse of Western Capitalism and the Second Cold War
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Well no, because there's no sign so far that either group is going to run the country, it's just that one is clearly better, or more accurately less bad, than the other. I should point out that this is in terms off running the country, obviously OTL the Weather Underground is worse, what with actually bombing things.
I feel like there's a problem when the terrorist bombers are the lesser evil.
Also, while I'm not saying it will end up like this, if this does go Rumsfeldia, I won't be too surprised. I love this TL, by the by.
I wouldn't be that put out if it does go Rumsfeldia really. It'd be interesting to see a left wing version of that TL, after all. It sort of reminds me of Reydan's Paris Commune TL, which explores the positives and negatives of pre-Marxian socialism with some aplomb.
I must not turn this into a Chat thread.
I must not turn this into a Chat thread.
I must not turn this into a Chat thread.
I don't want this to turn into a Rumsfeldia. Dystopias are dime a dozen in AH and I don't think this will turn into a utopia. I just want to see this play as history, with the good and bad parts.
Comparing the UPNA to today's US is pointless since it's stated that things were going to hell before. We now shall see what becomes from revolution. Probably not an utopia, that's sure.
Though the name makes me wonder if Canada and more importantly Mexico are on it. And what is happening to Latin America. I think that without US supporting the right most countries will have some sort of revolution. This might be helped by Cuba (and the USSR using it as proxy). On the other hand the right may double down seeing the world going in flames, though without a US and with World Revolution in full swing, I don't see them having as a strong position as OTL, in fact they may be weaker than ever.
The diversity of left-wing groups in Latin America cannot be understated: there were Troskysts, Maoists, Liberation Theology, left-wing Peronism/Justicialism, those weird technocrat experiments in Chile, indigenous movements, possibly pan-Africanism, and even Posadists as the comic relief character. But I think most will look to Cuba as a model, and with Cuba (presumably) having a free hand they will be more than eager to export the revolution and send volunteers like they did in Angola and other parts of Africa OTL.
And if the UNPA decides to intervene...
Comparing the UPNA to today's US is pointless since it's stated that things were going to hell before. We now shall see what becomes from revolution. Probably not an utopia, that's sure.
Though the name makes me wonder if Canada and more importantly Mexico are on it. And what is happening to Latin America. I think that without US supporting the right most countries will have some sort of revolution. This might be helped by Cuba (and the USSR using it as proxy). On the other hand the right may double down seeing the world going in flames, though without a US and with World Revolution in full swing, I don't see them having as a strong position as OTL, in fact they may be weaker than ever.
The diversity of left-wing groups in Latin America cannot be understated: there were Troskysts, Maoists, Liberation Theology, left-wing Peronism/Justicialism, those weird technocrat experiments in Chile, indigenous movements, possibly pan-Africanism, and even Posadists as the comic relief character. But I think most will look to Cuba as a model, and with Cuba (presumably) having a free hand they will be more than eager to export the revolution and send volunteers like they did in Angola and other parts of Africa OTL.
And if the UNPA decides to intervene...
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I think it’s important to emphasise that if the (second) American revolution has been a broader struggle then a lot of the inherent failings of the small fringe groups might be resolved “on the march”, as it were. We’ve already seen the Soviet ambassador to the UK lamenting how the CPGB failed to take a vanguardist role in the British revolution and given that the CPUSA was far more useless, as well as most other American far-left groups, it might not matter that much as to their OTL views. Getting headlines via a few bang-bangs and boom-booms isn’t the same as building a mass movement.
With the survival of Allende, I could see Cybersyn start to be applied in other places.
Didn't the Weather Underground mostly succeed in bombing themselves more than anything else? If I remember correctly they were better at running from the law for years on end than they were at actually blowing up their intended targets.
One of the few things that could've actually made a planned economy work.
It wouldn't fix everything on its own, mind, but based on what Cybersyn did manage to do implementing something like that would make things much easier and more efficient.
The US is also helped by that this TL is unlikely to have butterflied the early SAGE network (used for coordinating nuclear ordnance) and DARPANET (which was based on SAGE).
They dynamited NYPD headquarters, broke Timothy Leary out of prison, set off a bomb inside the Pentagon, and set off a bomb in the Capitol building. They were pretty badass. They also called in warning before bombings so no one got hurt.
EDIT: Oh yeah, they also robbed an armored car of 1.6 million dollars.
Ah alright, I must be confusing them with some other left wing 60s group that did blow themselves sky-high.
SpookyBoy
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The only people they killed were 2 of their own members when a bomb they were building went off by accident. But I don't think their aim with the bombings was to kill people, rather it was to attack symbols. Also, for the whole "homocidal terrorists in charge" stuff, that isn't too different to the ANC taking power in South Africa after apartheid.
V
Radiotelevisione italiana S.p.A. Broadcast from the Di Palazzo Chigi, Rome, Republic of Italy
"Comrades,
I'm am speaking to you today in a difficult time for our Republic, and for our Party. I am sure many of you are aware of the dire news coming out of Austria, where the chaos following the collapse of the international economic and diplomatic system of capitalism has allowed the Soviets to expand their reach into a country that had no desire to welcome them. No doubt you have see the refugees in our own Veneto, who have fled here at great danger to themselves in hope of an escape from the brutality of Russian occupation. As Socialists , Communists and Democrats, we are nonetheless bound to condemn those who would use the name of Socialism, Communism and Democracy to suppress the independence of sovereign nations and overturn legitimately elected governments. We believe that this new dawn, in which all nations now must face together the task of constructing Socialism according to each nations own conditions and historical development, it is not permissible that any nation that calls itself Socialist impose itself upon another against it's will. We believe and stand for the end of the Cold War that has divided Europe, an end to the bilateral completion between the great powers of East and West, and the dawn of a new era of sovereign freindship between all nations."
"Yet there are those among us who would see the democracy and sovereignty we currently possess surrendered in order that we shall more quickly develop to a Socialist level. Even if such a thing where possible, we would not allow it, for Democracy is a cornerstone of the principles of our Party. We understand that in the wake of the great crisis poverty and misery the likes of which have not been seen since the last world war has returned to Europe, and we understand the desire of those who are angry and impatient to replace the failed capitalist model with one that can finally feed, clothe and house all of the Italian people. They would see our democracy and sovereignty diluted so that the Soviets or the French may offer them a supposedly purer revolution than that provided by the leadership of our Party. Yet we as a Party must offer the people leadership based on the interests of the entire working class, and not bow to the cries of a vocal minority."
"As I am sure you are aware, certain disturbances have broken out in our capital, and in many of our major cities, where a coalition of ultra-left sects are attempting to overthrow our government. Though we respect and empathise with those of the younger generations who are impatient and angry, we cannot bow to the extremist minority that seek to misuse their idealism in the service of alien interests. Certain military elements have defected, and though not enough to overcome those forces loyal to our government, should they be allowed even an inch of legitimacy they shall call in the aid of France or Russia to support a Ultra-Left Fascist regime. We as a Party elected to office in free and fair elections shall not allow ourselves to be defeated by such Fascistic and unconstitutional violence."
"To this purpose we shall not allow rioters and terrorists to force us onto a reckless course, even if they accuse us of Fascism. We shall abide by no coup, no uprising and no subversion against the Republic in favour of any foreign power no matter what twisted version of socialist ideology they use to deceive our young people. We shall seek out the fraternity of nations who request us as equals, and preserve our democracy and sovereignty."
"To this end, we call on all workers to join in a General Strike in defence of the Republic. We in the Party call on the workers to defend the Republic against obstructionism, terrorism and insurrection against the constitution. To oppose those who would sell out our sovereignty in the name of a false doctrine that does not resemble the democratic traditions of Marx and Lenin. We call on the mature workers to show hooligan elements and the misguided young ones that the working class as a whole supports and wishes to preserve our democracy and our sovereignty as a free and independent Italian nation beholden to neither East nor West."
-Enrico Berlinguer's address to the nation during the height of the Year of Lead
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