The Wars of the Greeks (or: the Hellenistic Age uninterrupted)

[Skallagrim]

A very short TL, based very much on this discussion thread, on a subject we often return to: what if Rome had been broken early on? This question can have many answers, based on countless variables. The exact cause of Rome's defeat or destruction not least among them! In this instance, I'll present a scenario wherein the Pyrrhic War leads to the complete annihilation of Rome. My chief interest lies in imagining a Hellenistic Age that is not interrupted by Roman expansion. Since this what I call a "concept TL" (designed to explore an interesting notion), there will be far more historical parallelism than can really be justified. That's on purpose. Nevertheless, this does largely show the shape of developments as I would have expected them (up to a point).

Really, this is going to be a short one. Few thousand words in total, and some maps near the end. Handful of updates, to appear over the next few days.

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The Wars of the Greeks

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It was in the year 280 Before the Revelation that Pyrrhos, king of Epeiros, was called upon by the Hellenes of Taras to aid them in their war with the Roman Republic. Five years of bloody war followed, which would forever consolidate the image of star-doomed Pyrrhos, the glorious and meteoric figure who would ultimately prove a tragic figure as well. It is the origin of the term "Pyrrhic victory": the feat of one who wins completely in his endeavour, but never lives long enough to truly enjoy his success.

And the victory of Pyrrhos was complete. Not only did he fight like a lion for his Greek kinsmen, the gods of his age favoured his boldness and punished the insolent Romans on his behalf. Disaster struck that enemy at every turn. Their commanders died in combat, one after the other. Pyrrhos succeeded in forcing battle to be given on flat terrain that allowed the phalanx to function optimally. The Romans began to panic, and this led them to make mistakes, which only caused them further defeats. Finally, a plague broke out among their ranks, killing many of the soldiers they had left. Desertion in great numbers was the inevitable consequence, and this made matters far worse still.

Deserters found their way back to Rome, bringing the plague to their mother city, and causing its population to collapse. By this point, the native peoples of Italia—formerly under the Roman yoke—rebelled against Roman hegemony. The Tyrrhenoi declared their unfettered independence, and the Saunitai swore bitter vengeance against the rivals who had so humiliated them less than half a century before. As the war drew to a close, these Saunitai burned Rome to the ground.

Pyrrhos thus saw his goals achieved beyond what he had ever expected. Having come to Italia a foreign king, he returned to Epeiros as the hegemon of Syrakouse, the lord of Taras and the protector of all Megale Hellas. Wreathed in glory, he was hailed as Megas Alexandros born again. Not satisfied with even this, he cast has gaze east, marched against Antigonos II Gonatas and took the throne of Makedon for himself as well. Already we can hear the goat-song! Hubris! Yet had Pyrrhos halted there, he might have lived and prospered. But in 272 BR, Kleonymos the Spartan asked king Pyrrhos to aid him in conquering his native city. In return, Kleonymos would rule as a vassal of Pyrrhos. The victory-drunk king agreed readily, perhaps secretly planning to take the Peloponnese for himself.

Yet here he took a step too far beyond the bounds that his unforgiving gods set out for mere mortals. Strong resistance thwarted his assault on Sparta. On the retreat he lost his firstborn son, Ptolemaios, who had been in command of the rearguard. This austere warning could even then have led him still to abandon his too-hungry ambitions. But no, a new opportunity for greatness presented itself in a chance to intervene in a civic dispute in Argos. Loath to let his rival Antigonos Gonatas take the role of wise arbitrator for himself, Pyrrhos sped for Argos. Sped too fast. Within sight of the gates, his horse slipped on a rock, crashing down and dragging the king down as well. The fall broke his spine, and the ambitious conqueror died pinned beneath his crippled steed. This is how the old gods punished arrogance and greed, even in the greatest of men. In this respect, they do not differ much from our god, although the ways of our age are often more subtle.

 

[Rdffigueira]

(...)
It was in the year 280 Before the Revelation that Pyrrhos, king of Epeiros, was called upon by the Hellenes of Taras to aid them in their war with the Roman Republic. Five years of bloody war followed, which would forever consolidate the image of star-doomed Pyrrhos, the glorious and meteoric figure who would ultimately prove a tragic figure as well. It is the origin of the term "Pyrrhic victory": the feat of one who wins completely in his endeavour, but never lives long enough to truly enjoy his success.

Poor Pyrrhus. Seems like a painful demise. I'm interested in the premise, especially considering there was a recent "stillborn Rome" thread to inspire this kind of debate, and, even more, that this directly affects the Diadochi monarchies.

Just a question: are you using the Christian calendar out of simple convenience to avoid confusing readers? Because the chapter was written "in character" so to say, seemingly in the spirit of an Alt-TL textbook describing historical events that occurred in that TL, and it does seems a bit off to make reference to "Revelation". Anyways, great start, and you have a very nice writing style. Keep going!

 

[Skallagrim]

Poor Pyrrhus. Seems like a painful demise. I'm interested in the premise, especially considering there was a recent "stillborn Rome" thread to inspire this kind of debate, and, even more, that this directly affects the Diadochi monarchies.

That very discussion has led me to write this. And yes, poor Pyrrhus. One day I'll write somthing where he really gets to shine. He he's essentially just the plot device that kills Rome. And then he dies in similar circumstances to the OTL ones, simply in order not to totally change the trajectory of the Hellenistic states. (In OTL, he made it to Argos and then died because someone threw a rooftile at him, which broke his spine. The poor man.)

Just a question: are you using the Christian calendar out of simple convenience to avoid confusing readers? Because the chapter was written "in character" so to say, seemingly in the spirit of an Alt-TL textbook describing historical events that occurred in that TL, and it does seems a bit off to make reference to "Revelation". Anyways, great start, and you have a very nice writing style. Keep going!

I'm doing this out of convenience, but the convenience in question is that I have contrived a completely different religious revelation that just so happens to co-incide with the OTL birth of Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with Christianity, and everything with the prophet Rhemaxos (whose life, as we will see, is to be no less ill-starred than that of Pyrrhos).

 

[Historyman 14]

I love this. Can't wait to see more.

Either way, I wonder what be left of Rome at this point and what would be taken with the fallen Republic.

 

[Skallagrim]

I love this. Can't wait to see more.

Either way, I wonder what be left of Rome at this point and what would be taken with the fallen Republic.

Don't expect too much of it. This is just a fun ditty, nothing really highbrow or deeply perceptive here.

As for Rome: it is now a burned-out husk. Whatever is left will not be likely to survive my next update. Nevertheless, Italy will see bright days again.

 

[Historyman 14]

Don't expect too much of it. This is just a fun ditty, nothing really highbrow or deeply perceptive here.

As for Rome: it is now a burned-out husk. Whatever is left will not be likely to survive my next update. Nevertheless, Italy will see bright days again.

Ah. A pity. The Saunitai should have hold back, and take a page from the Celts from this.

 

[Pempelune]

That's a very clever introduction!
I mean, I spent the first five minutes thinking " but that's not what a pyrrhic victory is" before I got it and in retrospect it's a very good way to introduce what's different ITTL. I'll definitely be following!

also i'll try not to fall so easily to another one of those​

 

[Sersor]

Great start my friend. Sad to hear that is going to be a short one.
Never the less a world without Rome is a great field to explore. Looking forward to see the next chapters!

Spoiler: spoiler

By the way, i am working on a new ATL of this era also

 

[Skallagrim]

Ah. A pity. The Saunitai should have hold back, and take a page from the Celts from this.

That would have been smarter, but alas. The consequences of their rage-fueled orgy of destruction will be far greater than the pillaging Saunitai will ever know.

That's a very clever introduction!
I mean, I spent the first five minutes thinking " but that's not what a pyrrhic victory is" before I got it and in retrospect it's a very good way to introduce what's different ITTL. I'll definitely be following!

also i'll try not to fall so easily to another one of those​

Thank you! This was exactly what I was trying to do. From here on out, I promise I'll have far less trickery in store.

Great start my friend. Sad to hear that is going to be a short one.
Never the less a world without Rome is a great field to explore. Looking forward to see the next chapters!

Spoiler: spoiler

By the way, i am working on a new ATL of this era also

Haha, they can't all be lengthy door-stoppers. One could easily build a very long TL based on the premise of "Rome falls before it becomes a major player". In fact, it's hard to keep things limited! This whole thing was originally going to be single vignette and a map. It's already muscled its way into becoming a brief TL.

Spoiler: spoiler

And speaking of TLs: I'm looking forward to your next creation!

--

Anyway, the next update should be up later today!

 

[Skallagrim]

History marched on in the wake of Pyrrhos and his untimely demise. The king may not have had the chance to leave a great mark on the fate of the Hellenistic states, as he had ardently wished, but his glorious campaign in the west had forever altered the destiny of Italia. The destruction of Rome has thrown the peninsula into complete chaos, as various tribes and city-states tried to gain as much as they could get out of the turmoil. All competing factions, once united by their wish to throw off the Roman yoke, now turned on each other in greed. Old enmities, sometimes long-buried, were unearthed again. This violent time of weakness and division, of bloodshed and betrayal, attracted yet more dangerous opportunists. From the north, the Keltoi poured into Italia during the decades following Rome's destruction. War-bands and raiding parties formed out of opportunity soon coalesced into the armed forces of would-be conquerors. Throughout Italia, they would set themselves up as new rulers of tribes and cities, mixing with the native inhabitants and gradually shaping a hybrid culture.

This was hardly a process that occurred overnight. Indeed, chronicles of the period are rift with allusions to rebellions; to the overthrow of Keltic overlords in this city or that. Two decades after being suborned, the Tyrrhenoi won their freedom again, established a common alliance, and remained self-governing for the next ten years. Yet after this, they again fell prey to mutual hostility, and were brought under the control of new Keltic masters— whom they would not again escape. Peoples such as the Saunitai were less swiftly conquered, in a rough series of skirmishes that extended across many years, but once they were finally overpowered, they never successfully freed themselves from their conquerors again.

Megale Hellas, bolstered quite recently by the substantial aid of king Pyrrhos, managed to keep the invaders out of its domains. A Keltic army managed only to capture Neapolis, and held the city for a mere seven days before an outbreak of diphtheria greatly weakened these soldiers. This allowed the Greeks to force the Keltoi into a fighting retreat. After this point, they not attempt new attacks into Hellentic lands. To the north of the Hellenic poleis and their hinterland, however, a plethora of Keltitalic statelets soon emerged. With the daring king of Epeiros fallen, and the rest of the Hellenistic kingdoms once again involved in their own wars, the Keltic threat was not the only one that Megale Hellas would come to face, either. Karkhedon, long the foremost naval power in the western sea, knew well that the fall of Rome and the chaos that overtook Italia spelled opportunity. The mighty war-fleet of Karkhedon sailed out, its soldiers landing on Sikelia and marching on Syrakouse. Resist as they might, the Sikelian Hellenes were doomed without aid from the east— and this time, none was forthcoming.

Karkhedon took Sikelia, its campaign culminating in the successful siege of Syrakouse in 255 BR. The siege stretched out for months, and the final battle lasted a full day and nearly a full night even after the city wall was breached. Many a tragedy would later be penned about the heroism of the city's doomed defenders, about their unwillingness to yield, about the Battle of the Lanterns where they perished to a man. Kneading historical fact just a little for the sake of dramatic elegance, the most famous play to depict this battle—The Last Song of Syrakouse—has general Leonnatos perish after a night of torch-lit combat, the very last of the city's defenders, struck down just as the first rays of the rising sun touch his face. In truth, fighting ended hours before sunrise, and history does not record who perished last. Yet it is not disputed that the Hellenes fought bravely, without ever asking for quarter. Not even the Karkhedonians deny this, and it is recorded that their soldiers prayed and sacrificed for their valiant enemies after the battle ended.

It may perhaps be offered that this simple tribute, of soldiers to their fellow warriors, held far more meaning than any of the fanciful words later spilled out onto countless pages. For it cannot escape notice that the kings and lords of Greece, who rushed to dedicate monuments to the heroes of Syrakouse, had none of them sent any men to aid their kinsmen. No matter how ambitious, Pyrrhos had certainly been brave and loyal. Perhaps the last brave and loyal man Hellas would see for a long time. The kings left after his death were occupied only with their own petty grudges, and did nothing to hinder the advance of Karkhedon, though it took place at the expense of their fellow Greeks.

Unchallenged, Karkhedon continued its expansion after taking Sikelia by also winning control of the other islands of the western sea, establishing outposts before any ambitious Keltic warlord could devise a naval strategy. Leaving the peninsular parts of Megale Hellas unmolested for the moment, Karkhedon instead sought to expand its trade-empire in areas less likely to successfully resist. This campaign, lasting decades, led to the vassalisation of all Iberia, and hegemony over the western sea. Ultimately, even the Hellenic city of Massalia petitioned to be annexed by Karkhedon, faced with the even more unpleasant alternative of being overrun by Keltic raiders. The protection of Karkhedon afforded safety from that, as the Keltoi were savvy enough to understand that access to Karkhedon's trade network could only aid them. Karkhedon, in turn, preferred steady profits over endless wars of expansion. Thus, there was to be relative peace in the west for a considerable period.

 

[Rdffigueira]

I'm doing this out of convenience, but the convenience in question is that I have contrived a completely different religious revelation that just so happens to co-incide with the OTL birth of Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with Christianity, and everything with the prophet Rhemaxos (whose life, as we will see, is to be no less ill-starred than that of Pyrrhos).

I suspected that there was more to using "Revelation" than I was supposing. I thought you'd have a messiah-like figure appear in Syria this time to spread some weird Iranian-cult during the reign of the Seleucids, or something similar. But its nice to see you have thought on something completely different already

I've never heard about Rhemaxos. There doesn't seem to have a lot written about him... I supposed that this makes him a perfect template to work upon as an Alt-Character.

On the new update, just a question: Do we know who are the Celts that invade Italy? I suppose it might be the Gauls, but likely also the Boii or perhaps the Senones. I know that your focus will likely shift to Greece and Asia, its just a curiosity.

Keep going!

 

[Skallagrim]

I suspected that there was more to using "Revelation" than I was supposing. I thought you'd have a messiah-like figure appear in Syria this time to spread some weird Iranian-cult during the reign of the Seleucids, or something similar. But its nice to see you have thought on something completely different already

I've never heard about Rhemaxos. There doesn't seem to have a lot written about him... I supposed that this makes him a perfect template to work upon as an Alt-Character.

On the new update, just a question: Do we know who are the Celts that invade Italy? I suppose it might be the Gauls, but likely also the Boii or perhaps the Senones. I know that your focus will likely shift to Greece and Asia, its just a curiosity.

Keep going!

Oh, Rhemaxos is totally made up-- but the name is real, and might clue some people in when it comes to his place of origin.

The Celts invading Italy are - I admit - deliberately kept a bit undefined. I'm imagining a rather diffuse collection of war-bands, drawn in from various locales, simply because the opportunity is there for the taking. The decision of near-by peoples to move (further) into Italy leaves behind a relative void, which causes the migration and expansion of other Celtic peoples. Some just move closer to Italy, others move on into Italy, and yet others just come along for some pillaging and then leave again. It's a big mess for a few decades. This rather mingled nature of the Celtitalic population does have the side-effect of their having ties to quite a lot of Celtic peoples outside Italy. Even if distant, certain connections (trade, alliance and - less frequently - political intermarriage) do remain.

 

[Rdffigueira]

Oh, Rhemaxos is totally made up-- but the name is real, and might clue some people in when it comes to his place of origin.

The Celts invading Italy are - I admit - deliberately kept a bit undefined. I'm imagining a rather diffuse collection of war-bands, drawn in from various locales, simply because the opportunity is there for the taking. The decision of near-by peoples to move (further) into Italy leaves behind a relative void, which causes the migration and expansion of other Celtic peoples. Some just move closer to Italy, others move on into Italy, and yet others just come along for some pillaging and then leave again. It's a big mess for a few decades. This rather mingled nature of the Celtitalic population does have the side-effect of their having ties to quite a lot of Celtic peoples outside Italy. Even if distant, certain connections (trade, alliance and - less frequently - political intermarriage) do remain.

That's exactly the point I was trying to reach. You've read my mind. This creates very interesting implications for Italy as a melting pot of cross-cultural influences, much like Carthaginized Iberia and Hellenified Egypt.

 

[Historyman 14]

I am not sure I like all these Celts just rushing into Italy. If anything, I would have like to see everyone else conquer them, and become Greek, and Italic.

Or have Karkhedon become super Greek-Italic. No need for that pointless Celtic stuff.

 

[Md139115]

Quick question:

Is Karkhedon the TTL name for Carthage?

 

[Skallagrim]

I am not sure I like all these Celts just rushing into Italy. If anything, I would have like to see everyone else conquer them, and become Greek, and Italic.

Or have Karkhedon become super Greek-Italic. No need for that pointless Celtic stuff.

Celtic stuff is never pointless. Of course, we are looking at hybrid cultures anyway, with the Celtic kings and nobles adopting a lot of stuff from their new Italian subjects. Besides, Celts being conquered by an Italian people is OTL, and Hellenised Celts has been done to great acclaim by @Sersor.

This time around, most of Italy gets to be rather Celtic, and Iberia gets to be greatly influenced by Karkhedon. Megale Hellas meanwhile stays firmly Greek (at least the peninsular parts). As for greater Greek influence elsewhere... let's just see what the future holds.

Quick question:

Is Karkhedon the TTL name for Carthage?

Yes. Karkhedon was simply the Greek name for Qart-Hadasht. The Romans aren't around to name it 'Carthago', and as we will see, Greek influence will remain more formidable in this TL. So Karkhedon it is.

 

[Historyman 14]

Celtic stuff is never pointless. Of course, we are looking at hybrid cultures anyway, with the Celtic kings and nobles adopting a lot of stuff from their new Italian subjects. Besides, Celts being conquered by an Italian people is OTL, and Hellenised Celts has been done to great acclaim by @Sersor.

This time around, most of Italy gets to be rather Celtic, and Iberia gets to be greatly influenced by Karkhedon. Megale Hellas meanwhile stays firmly Greek (at least the peninsular parts). As for greater Greek influence elsewhere... let's just see what the future holds.

I'm Scot-Irish from my dad side, and English, Freach, German, and Flemish from mom's side. I love my Celtic Culture, but I always favor German, Scot, and Greco-Roman over it.

 

[Skallagrim]

I'm Scot-Irish from my dad side, and English, Freach, German, and Flemish from mom's side. I love my Celtic Culture, but I always favor German, Scot, and Greco-Roman over it.

Frankly, I've hardly ever met a culture I didn't like. You really need to have some pretty horrible traditions for me start backing away. That said, my philhellene tendencies are no secret, which is why this whole TL is very Greek. Still, the idea of Celtic-Etruscan city-states and Celto-Samnite fiefs gradually coalescing into kingdoms of greater consequence doesn't lack in its ability to excite my imagination.

(And I have not a drop of Celtic, Italian or Greek blood. It's all a matter of cultural affinity.)

 

[Historyman 14]

Frankly, I've hardly ever met a culture I didn't like. You really need to have some pretty horrible traditions for me start backing away. That said, my philhellene tendencies are no secret, which is why this whole TL is very Greek. Still, the idea of Celtic-Etruscan city-states and Celto-Samnite fiefs gradually coalescing into kingdoms of greater consequence doesn't lack in its ability to excite my imagination.

(And I have not a drop of Celtic, Italian or Greek blood. It's all a matter of cultural affinity.)

The way you put it, I am starting to like it more and more.

 

[Skallagrim]

While tranquility slowly returned to a much-shaken west, the never restful nations of the eastern shores continued their unfaltering battle-dances. The wars of the Greeks raged on—now flaring, then dimming, but never going out altogether—as they had done since the youthful demise of that world-conqueror, Megas Alexandros. Some had seen in Pyrrhos the promise of new splendour, and had bitterly watched that promise be dashed before the gates of Argos. For decades it seemed that nothing was held in store for the Greeks but the petty wars of petty kings. A slow fading, ill-suited to a proud people. Certainly Aigyptos, governed by the house of Ptolemaios, was seen to enter a phase of drawn-out decline. A great king might have saved the Nile-bank realm, but no such king arose.

This was very different, however, in two other Greek states. The greatest and most powerful of the successor kingdoms, namely the Empire of the Seleukid dynasty, was perhaps in just as much danger of stagnation and decline as Aigyptos turned out to be. Yet in the Seleukid Empire arose in the fateful hour Antiokhos III, who would prove among the greatest of his line. In any other age, this Antiokhos might have marched out and conquered all Hellas and Aigyptos besides. But fate would have it that this king would meet his match in strength and will. In Makedon, a state only decades before so deeply humbled by Pyrrhos, a king came forward to restore greatness to the Antigonid dynasty. Philippos V, who would in time be named "Beloved of the Hellenes", was to eclipse Antiokhos in renown among the Greeks. Whether this is fair, we cannot rightfully judge. We can only say that history willed it thus, for good or ill.

The young king of Makedon was tested as soon as he came to power. Inheriting a fierce rivalry of Greek alliances, Philippos led the Hellenic League in the Social War against the Aitolian League, Sparta and Elis. Fearful of Aitolian expansion, the Akhaian League, the Epirote League and the Boeotian League had united in the Hellenic "League of Leagues" which aimed to unite all of Greece under the hegemony of Makedon. The Aitolians, in turn, were understandably wary of such plans taking shape. Both sides saw it as imperative that the other's ascension was checked as soon as possible. The fact that an inexperienced young man came to the throne in Pella was seen by the Aitolians as their best and perhaps last chance to break the Hellenic League apart. Thus, it came to war in 220 BR. Yet they had underestimated Philippos greatly, and after three years of fighting, it was he who emerged victorious. He briefly considered renewed campaigns against the Illyrians, but instead opted to build up his forces for inevitable later hostilities in Greece.

These hostilities came in 213 BR, when the Aitolians allied with Pergamon in a final attempt to curb the power of the Hellenic League. Perhaps they might have succeeded, although it is doubtful. In all likelihood, had they been able to face Philippos undisturbed, they could have given him a truly hard-fought endeavour. But they were not undisturbed. The Seleukid Empire sought to exploit Pergamon's involvement in the conflict, which forced Attalos of Pergamon to pull back from Greece in the middle of the war. Philippos handily defeated the Aitolians, and utterly dismantled their League. Knowing what he intended, and that it would be their undoing, they fought long and hard— some towards an honourable surrender, and some towards no surrender at all.

We speak here of Sparta. In 207 BR, when all its allies had already been defeated, when its own armies had twice been driven from the field, that proud city still maintained defiance. Philippos offered the Spartans full amnesty if they would swear fealty to him and never again raise arms against him. This would involve the traditional ritual of submission: the surrender of their arms to him. To this royal demand the Spartans sent, in their laconic fashion, a response of just two words— the same words they had given Xerxes. And so Philippos knew what would await him at Sparta. The Spartans, for their part, did not flinch in the face of certain destruction. Their city, famously un-walled, was encircled by nothing but a hastily dug trench. From this position, they would face the enemy. Not for victory, not out of hope against hope, not out of promises made to allies, but out of their abiding love of fate.

Philippos outnumbered the Spartans by over ten to one, and it still took him three days to breach into an un-walled city. Even then, it gained him nothing but the certainty of the war's final ending, for as the Spartan lines finally broke, the women and children of Sparta upended the urns of oil they had filled up for just this moment, and set fire to their city. King Philippos had no choice but to retreat from a city that was, in the final instance, not taken by his royal army but by the flames its inhabitants had lit themselves. And it is for this reason that until this day, the Spartans are known as self-conquerors, who will perish rather than accept defeat. In this hardness of will, they strove even beyond the defenders of Syrakouse, who after all knew well that defeat would mean enslavement in any event. The Spartans were offered full amnesty, and still chose a battle-death of their own volition.

By coming to its end in this way, Sparta honoured its traditions and its sacred values. Some have called this madness, others greatness beyond measure. All must judge for themselves how they esteem the Spartans. For his part, Philippos emulated the Karkhedonians at Syrakouse, and ordered prayer and sacrifice for the fallen. It is beyond question that he had sufficient ground to be magnanimous. Though he could not take self-immolated Sparta for a prize, he had certainly dealt with this last enemy in a most final manner. This concluded all meaningful opposition to his power, and within a year, he would be acclaimed as King of the Hellenes.