The War of Mexican Intervention? (~1995)

CalBear

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A few points:

Nato would undoubted be involved in the Turkish situation; Turkey is one of the founding NATO members and it would have experienced a devastating attack. This needs to be taken into account. Without Nukes, Iran and Pakistan combined could not handle the Turks alone. Add in the Nato forces that become part of the scenario after Syria's decision to commit sucide by usinng WMD's, and the situation becomes hopeless, particularly as the U.S. isn't encumbered in this TL in Iraq. Use of Nukes against a NATO member (and a more or less staunch U.S. ally, the recent Iraqi situation in OTL notwithstanding) is an exceptionally good way to die. Given your posit that the CACG has managed to offend both Russian AND India would suggest that Pakistan had better worry a good deal more about it's "Hot" border than some nation a thousand miles away.

It is also very likely that a serious state of, if not war, unpleasantness to the extreme, will exist with Venezuela & anyone foolish enough to side with them A "MERCOSUR" nuclear program would be enough to cause preventitive attacks, both by air & by Spec Ops forces. As was noted in a similar thread, the United States has a considerable number of highly trained operators who speak Spanish as a 1st language. It would be close to shocking if at least some of the principals in the Mexican invasion, including Chavez were not deceased well before this time. Given the overwhelming military advantages enjoyed by the United States, an alliance against the States & whatever is left of the OAS (and I must point out that much of the OAS would be far more afraid of an agressive MERCOSUR in the hemisphere than they would be angry at the U.S.) would be cut-off, embargoed, blockaded, and generally in the soup neck high.

After the quasi-war with Venezuela, the U.S. would have firm control over the oil production of Venezuala (and, one can safely assume, Mexico), possibly through the sponsership of "Freedom Fighters". The nuclear facilities of all MERCOSUR countries would be under constat surveillance by "National Technical Means" as well as HUMIT assets. A vessel or aircraft moving nuclear material to another sworn enemy of the U.S. (and incidently, NATO in this scenario) would find itself either intercepted or boarded with predictable results.

Historically, the United States becomes ever more agressive as threats increase against it. This is why the country spends as much money on its military forces as the REST of the world COMBINED. An unfortunate, but very real fact, is that the militaries of any Latin American country exist at the sufferance of the USAF. The combined forces of the entire hemisphere vs. The United States = a U.S. walkover. In this case it would not be the entire hemisphere, as many of the other Latin American states would be line up against MERCOSUR.

I applaude your attempts to have a FTL with such a close POD, however, the military realities that exist, and will exist into the close term (15-20 years?) future, make agressive actions by non Nato forces against Nato members an virtual impossibility. The same can be said, with even more confidence about an attempt to seriously commit agressive war in the Western Hemisphere without the tacit, if not open, agreement of the United States.

You might want to consider the much more difficult to create, but more possible, subversion of governments by internal political forces. Changes of this type can be less interesting to write , and will certainly take longer to effect, but they are also less likely to arouse the anger of the World's 800 pound gorillia, not to mention the various regional 500 pounders (Russia, the EU, India, the PRC) to the point where they feel obliged to take direct action (i.e. find the troublemakers and tear all their limbs off).:eek:

Hopefully you will find some of this to be useful.

In any case best of liuck with your TL.
 
CalBear said:
A few points:

Nato would undoubted be involved in the Turkish situation; Turkey is one of the founding NATO members and it would have experienced a devastating attack. This needs to be taken into account. Without Nukes, Iran and Pakistan combined could not handle the Turks alone. Add in the Nato forces that become part of the scenario after Syria's decision to commit sucide by usinng WMD's, and the situation becomes hopeless, particularly as the U.S. isn't encumbered in this TL in Iraq. Use of Nukes against a NATO member (and a more or less staunch U.S. ally, the recent Iraqi situation in OTL notwithstanding) is an exceptionally good way to die. Given your posit that the CACG has managed to offend both Russian AND India would suggest that Pakistan had better worry a good deal more about it's "Hot" border than some nation a thousand miles away.

It is also very likely that a serious state of, if not war, unpleasantness to the extreme, will exist with Venezuela & anyone foolish enough to side with them A "MERCOSUR" nuclear program would be enough to cause preventitive attacks, both by air & by Spec Ops forces. As was noted in a similar thread, the United States has a considerable number of highly trained operators who speak Spanish as a 1st language. It would be close to shocking if at least some of the principals in the Mexican invasion, including Chavez were not deceased well before this time. Given the overwhelming military advantages enjoyed by the United States, an alliance against the States & whatever is left of the OAS (and I must point out that much of the OAS would be far more afraid of an agressive MERCOSUR in the hemisphere than they would be angry at the U.S.) would be cut-off, embargoed, blockaded, and generally in the soup neck high.

After the quasi-war with Venezuela, the U.S. would have firm control over the oil production of Venezuala (and, one can safely assume, Mexico), possibly through the sponsership of "Freedom Fighters". The nuclear facilities of all MERCOSUR countries would be under constat surveillance by "National Technical Means" as well as HUMIT assets. A vessel or aircraft moving nuclear material to another sworn enemy of the U.S. (and incidently, NATO in this scenario) would find itself either intercepted or boarded with predictable results.

Historically, the United States becomes ever more agressive as threats increase against it. This is why the country spends as much money on its military forces as the REST of the world COMBINED. An unfortunate, but very real fact, is that the militaries of any Latin American country exist at the sufferance of the USAF. The combined forces of the entire hemisphere vs. The United States = a U.S. walkover. In this case it would not be the entire hemisphere, as many of the other Latin American states would be line up against MERCOSUR.

I applaude your attempts to have a FTL with such a close POD, however, the military realities that exist, and will exist into the close term (15-20 years?) future, make agressive actions by non Nato forces against Nato members an virtual impossibility. The same can be said, with even more confidence about an attempt to seriously commit agressive war in the Western Hemisphere without the tacit, if not open, agreement of the United States.

You might want to consider the much more difficult to create, but more possible, subversion of governments by internal political forces. Changes of this type can be less interesting to write , and will certainly take longer to effect, but they are also less likely to arouse the anger of the World's 800 pound gorillia, not to mention the various regional 500 pounders (Russia, the EU, India, the PRC) to the point where they feel obliged to take direct action (i.e. find the troublemakers and tear all their limbs off).:eek:

Hopefully you will find some of this to be useful.

In any case best of liuck with your TL.

Another point to consider is the fact that the U.S. would most likely invoke the Monroe Doctrine and the International Nuclaer Non-Proliferation Treaty of 1962 in an effort to prevent the MERCOSUR nations from even coming close to any nuclear weapons research...

As for NATO involvement, to make matters worse, consider that the U.S. Navy has several bases in the region, thus forcing the U.S. hand in the region. At the very least you would have a diplomatic disaster on your hands...
 
Yeah... The reason why the US hasn't gone to MERCOSUR yet is the possibility of supremely angering Russia and China. But that's not to say all of Latin America is behind MERCOSUR. It's a five nation bloc, and virtually every other state on the continent (lead by Colombia) is preparing for war against them.

As for the 'impossibility' of attacks against NATO members, I don't believe that is necessarily the case. The prevalence of NGOs in political affairs (especially when you look at the Mideast) makes a war against a NATO member much more likely. The Turkey-Syria situation is basically a very, very nasty rehash of 1998. The difference in this TL being that Turkey is a recipient of a 9/11 rather than the US. Given that Turkey is much more vocal in terms of pushing out Muslim fundementalism than any nation save post-9/11 US.

Remember that MERCOSUR's nuclear program is not vocally violent... And as recently as 2004 they've been active in OTL (In Brazil's case). Their President speaks out about how 'unfair' the NPT is. I think in the OTL and in the ATL, even with 'You're Either With Us Or Against Us' CinCs, the US will put up with a year or two of crap before lashing out. That's been the general historical trend, short of a physical attack on US soil itself. Don't worry, I'm not going to completely throw out what you say. I'm writing the 2006, and a lot of goverments are going to change hands as soon as the US declares war.
 
Problems...

Blochead said:
Yeah... The reason why the US hasn't gone to MERCOSUR yet is the possibility of supremely angering Russia and China. But that's not to say all of Latin America is behind MERCOSUR. It's a five nation bloc, and virtually every other state on the continent (lead by Colombia) is preparing for war against them.

As for the 'impossibility' of attacks against NATO members, I don't believe that is necessarily the case. The prevalence of NGOs in political affairs (especially when you look at the Mideast) makes a war against a NATO member much more likely. The Turkey-Syria situation is basically a very, very nasty rehash of 1998. The difference in this TL being that Turkey is a recipient of a 9/11 rather than the US. Given that Turkey is much more vocal in terms of pushing out Muslim fundementalism than any nation save post-9/11 US.

Remember that MERCOSUR's nuclear program is not vocally violent... And as recently as 2004 they've been active in OTL (In Brazil's case). Their President speaks out about how 'unfair' the NPT is. I think in the OTL and in the ATL, even with 'You're Either With Us Or Against Us' CinCs, the US will put up with a year or two of crap before lashing out. That's been the general historical trend, short of a physical attack on US soil itself. Don't worry, I'm not going to completely throw out what you say. I'm writing the 2006, and a lot of goverments are going to change hands as soon as the US declares war.

-First, consider that MERCUSOR still receives at least 60% of its trade from the United States. This alone will add the element of economic pressure against P.O.'ing the U.S. Second, consider that Russia and China will honor the issue of the Monroe Doctrine. They are often afraid of reciprocity in terms of military and./or political alliance by the U.S. in Central Asia and/or South Asia.

-Second, in terms of religious fundamentalism in Istanbul, consider that the second the religious fundamentalists go "out of line", as in 2002, the government will launch martial law so fast as to frighten any critics. This will immediately draw in NATO. As such this also happened inthe year 1950, when the Soviets attempted to conduct "police actions" within the area. As such, there is no way around U.S./NATO involvement.

-Third, anyone pulling out of the International Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty of 1962, has agreed that withdrawal will warrant foreign attention. Consider that the last nation to attempt to leave the treaty was North Korea in 1994. The unwanted international attention it received caused the nation to back down at least temporarily. The same case with Iran since 2002. Any attempt, even if based on "peaceful conditions" will spark outrage from teh entire international community....
 

2006

[Part I: January through March 2006]

When Russia and China seem to withdraw themselves from the war, the world declares peace, if erroneously. Like in many major wars and crises before, America had exhibited restraint. But that restraint could only be held for so long.

The final straw was the confirmation in January 2006 that Iran and MERCOSUR were trading uranium and nuclear technology. America gave no declaration of war. McCain took advantage of the 60 day limit to launch a giant air-sea blitzkrieg on South America. The USS Ohio, which had been prepositioned in the South Atlantic for this occasion, was the first to fire, loosing hundreds of Tomahawk Cruise Missiles over MERCOSUR air defense and early warning installations with deadly accuracy. Despite their new equipment, MERCOSUR still lacked the personnel quality of a first world military fighting force. Soon on the followup were B-2 Spirit bombers which bombed Resende and every other known MERCOSUR nuclear facility. The following day, Congress voted to declare war, with McCain saying 'operational secrecy' was necessary for the pre-Declaration attacks. World War III had begun in earnest.

[South American Front]

MERCOSUR was caught completely off guard by the initial attacks, and within 24 hours their air forces were in ruins. Initial strikes had destroyed many major airbases, and though there was still some capability, the US was quickly beginning a round-the-clock bombing campaign on strategic targets. Panama announced its decision to ban canal access to MERCOSUR, and Colombia promptly began an offensive into Venezuela.

The internal strain in MERCOSUR was most evident when Paraguay's government voted to secede and offered neutrality. Uruguay promptly followed. But within the 'triumvirate' of hardliners, political dissent was hardly someone else's problem. In Venezuela and Argentina, US Allied nations began supply of resistance groups. Conventional efforts were effective, moreso in Venezuela than Argentina. The Colombian 1st Division spearheaded the assault into Venezuela under a fairly effective air cover. The Colombian Air Force also scored a decisive victory against their Venezuelan counterparts east of San Cristobal, allowing Colombian forces to advance relatively quickly. The Chilean army made excellent progress, but with significantly less US Air support, they faced what was probably the best-equipped and most competent armed force of the MERCOSUR bloc.

In Mexico, Chiapas was quickly subjugated by the USMC. With no support from an embattled MERCOSUR, their professional army was decisively destroyed in the Yucatan. They quickly resorted back to guerilla warfare, but without any source of arms, the US assured that their 'surrender was inevitable'.

[The Mideast Front]

Sharon's troubled recent medical history culminated in a stroke which gave Olmert control of the nation. Seeing Iran at the point of no return, he asks in February for Iran to completely dismantle its nuclear program. It does not.

Israeli forces attack Bushehr and Natanz, and the US, knowing it is all or nothing now, responds with devastating strikes on Iranian air defense and missile capabilities. US aircraft over Iraq begin massive bombardment of the nation (which declared war when Israel attacked Iran), and US troops are quickly deployed into Saudi Arabia, where US forces push for Baghdad. SOCOM begins sending arms to Shiites in Southern Iraq, and soon Iraq must turn its forces inward.

Azerbaijan resigns from the CACG and declares alliance with Turkey, its longtime ally. Azerbaijan had been lobbying for peace, but when war broke out they did not wish to suffer under their former friend's boots. Iran's conventional army launched a counter offensive into Iraq against US forces there, while declaring the Strait of Hormuz closed to the EU, NATO, and US. In one of the darkest days for the US, CVN-68 Nimitz is crippled by an Iranian Sunburn missile strike, along with a Ticonderoga class Guided Missile Cruiser. Retaliatory airstrikes quickly clear the Strait of most missiles, though the USAF and USN aircraft are caught in a constant search for launchers farther inland.

Pakistan itself was the sole nuclear power of the 'Anti-Western' side of the new World War. But most of their military was tied up in a defense against India, and of their handful of nukes, Pakistan wanted to keep enough to have deterrence against India, which had declared it would attack Pakistan if they moved against Israel or set off a nuclear weapon against anyone.

By Spring, the US is in a state of total war. America could not afford to fight this conflict with an air of detachment. McCain warned that "We must not falter to mobilize every resource availible if it is required in the face of adversity. We cannot leave when the going gets tough. This war will determine the future of every American life, whether we want to fight it or not. The only way America will prosper in this future is if we fight it on our terms."
 
2006-

[Part II-: April-December 2006]

[Overview]

The war has taken on many names. In America, it is the Third World War. In the Mideast, it is The Great Jihad. In the crumbling nations of MERCOSUR it is the War of American Imperialism. The conflict is best decribed as the 'War For Hegemony': The war to preserve the dominance of the West and those who embrace it. The war between those who want to globalize and those who want to regionalize. A war, that as of April 2006, the West seems to be winning.

[South American Front]

By April of 2006 Allied air dominance is complete. With the deployment of the Theodore Roosevelt Strike Group to the South Atlantic, the stalemate near the Andes is finally broken. Chilean forces split Argentina in half as they drive towards the capital. By September, Argentina throws in the towel. With the Chilean Army in Junin and daily bombardment of the 'last stand' at Buenos Aires, the war for them is over.

In Venezuela, the well-armed Colombian forces continue to pound towards Caracas. Revolution is rife as US Special Forces lead guerilla strikes against the supply lines of most Venezuelan forces and provincial capitals. Key oil fields are seized by the 82nd Airborne and other airmobile units. Venezuela's conventional army is effectively destroyed by mid-summer, and Colombia refocuses its forces towards Brazil.

Brazil itself is no easy nut to crack. The largest nation in South America, it is choked by jungle and crisscrossed by rivers that would cause invasion to drag on for much longer than any other front. The US and Allied nations began massing troops for an invasion. It would be a two pronged assault: Marines would prepare to assault the Central Coast of Brazil, while the US would station troops in a Uruguay that had recently withdrawn from Mercosur. One key new development in this was an 'American Foreign Legion': US equipped and lead forces of immigrants who wanted guaranteed citizenship or work-permits for them and their families. It was not an unusual development: many a time Mexicans had jumped the border to fight for the US, this war would be no different. They would be among the first troops to cross into Brazil.

The assault began in late October when the appropriate amount of troops necessary was amassed. Two Marine Expeditionary Forces crashed ashore in Bahia, and met fierce resistance. Forces here were among the most professional Brazil could muster, well equipped, well trained, and well motivated. It was one of the bloodiest battles, but once major armor was ashore, and combined with US air support, the provine was taken by the end of the year.

In the South, the US 1st Cavalry and the American Foreign Legion spearheaded the assault into the fertile Rio Grande do Sul. US forces destroyed any conventional opposition until Sao Paolo, when guerilla forces from the highlands in the South began to slow the logistic train. In late November, major elements of the American Foreign Legion stormed into the highlands with the intent of tracking down and killing the insurgents based there. In the most casualty heavy event of the South American Front, the AFL proved their skill as a fighting force and their dedication to the United States.

With that disruption out of the way, the US was in Northwestern Minas Gerais, only a few dozen miles away from linking up with the USMC by the end of the year.

---

Mideast coming later... All hell is going to break loose there.
 

CalBear

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The American Foreign Legion idea is unusual. It also seems very unlikely, given the difference between the circumstance of the U.S. & France when the original Legion was formed. That the U.S. would enlist massive numbers of foreign troops is quite unlikely. Had the United States accepted the Northern Mexican states as U.S. territories, that would be one thing, this is something else. I would suggest that these troops would be organized as a "Free Mexico" force, similar to the Poles in WW II. The effect is almost the same, but the principle is quite different.

The amphibious invasion of Brazil is also interesting. Would Brazil really be willing to fight on, once the instigator of all of the unpleasantness had been defeated, occupied, and ruined? This would seem to be illogical, given the world as posited.

A brief word about the pending Miseast situation... It is worth remembering that the U.S has two CBG's (Figues two Tico's 4-5 Burkes, a Spruance of two, a couple of OHP frigates, and at least one 688, per group) in the Med at all times, U.S. & Nato forces have airbases that dot the Med region, and that the U.S. maintains at least one CBG in the Red Sea/Indian Ocean on a continious basis. The U.S also maintains a noreworthy strike force at Diego Garcia. These forces are in addition to the IDF, which alone constitutes an overmatch for any possible combination of enemies with the ability to strike them. Israel also maintains a considerable nuclear deterrent force, and has numerous American Patriot SAM batteries, with all the latest bells & whistles, deployed. In Southwest Asia, the Indian Military constitutes an overmatch for Pakistan, even if Nukes are entered into the equation.

Once again, hope the comments are a help, not a hinderance & best of luck with the TL
 
I think the name may be throwing you off a bit... Here's why I decided to form it.

This is offered as a way to boost US manpower, and considering that NMS aren't fully naturalized, (combined with influx of immigrants from war-torn South/Central Mexico), it may be a good idea.

It's not a 'massive force', most likely around 20,000 men or so. Then again depends on what you mean by massive...

Anyway, I've gleaned the idea from a variety of sources.

[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=7861

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_012104_Foreign,00.html

Certainly controversial, but given the US 'overstretch' with major fronts spread across the globe, combined with increased immigration from political instability in Mexico, it may be a good idea.

Thanks for the info on the Mideast... I threw the Iranians a bone and had Sunburns deal some heavy damage to the Nimitz and a Tico, but what you'll see is pretty much a walkover by the IDF and Turkey in Iran, US destroying Iraq and Pakistan along with India.

But I am going to posit some serious instability of Saudi Arabia. I think the idea of the US basing forces in the holy land to support a 'War of Imperialism' with Israel may be the final straw, and that some sort of revolution might occur. Of course, the Saudi standing army is pretty much crap, but the idea of massive terrorist activity in your supply tail would certainly be something to get the US stirred up. Think it's realistic?
 

CalBear

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Blochead said:
I think the name may be throwing you off a bit... Here's why I decided to form it.

This is offered as a way to boost US manpower, and considering that NMS aren't fully naturalized, (combined with influx of immigrants from war-torn South/Central Mexico), it may be a good idea.

It's not a 'massive force', most likely around 20,000 men or so. Then again depends on what you mean by massive...

Anyway, I've gleaned the idea from a variety of sources.

[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=7861

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_012104_Foreign,00.html

Certainly controversial, but given the US 'overstretch' with major fronts spread across the globe, combined with increased immigration from political instability in Mexico, it may be a good idea.

Thanks for the info on the Mideast... I threw the Iranians a bone and had Sunburns deal some heavy damage to the Nimitz and a Tico, but what you'll see is pretty much a walkover by the IDF and Turkey in Iran, US destroying Iraq and Pakistan along with India.

But I am going to posit some serious instability of Saudi Arabia. I think the idea of the US basing forces in the holy land to support a 'War of Imperialism' with Israel may be the final straw, and that some sort of revolution might occur. Of course, the Saudi standing army is pretty much crap, but the idea of massive terrorist activity in your supply tail would certainly be something to get the US stirred up. Think it's realistic?

Suadi Arabia has always been a potential problem, The regime is of doubtful legitimacy, has set itself up by encouraging radical Islam in-country while dealing with the West & providing non-Islamic colonies for guest workers who are part of the oil industry. The real question is, as the Kingdom's population is very small, & highly reliant on foreign workers to do most of the actual labor, how much effort would it really be for the U.S. & some more moderate Arab prince, to wreste control back, assuming the House of Saud lost it.

Just my point of view.
 
[The Mideast Front]

After the Battle of Hormuz, the Allies were poised to dominate the Middle East. In the largest tank battle since Kursk, the US III Corps defeats five Divisions of Iraqi combat troops, including 3 Iranian Armored Divisions. Even the newly purchased Type 90 MBT (Chinese, not the Japanese of similar designation) is no match for the Abrams and the air support of the USS Reagan. The US traces a swath of destruction across the Arabian Peninsula, decapitating the governments of Iraq, Yemen, and Oman. But as forces push into Iran, the ferocity of the fighting reaches savage levels.

In Southern Iran, the population reacts to the Ayatollah's declaration of jihad with bloodthirsty fervor. Thousands of poorly-equipped equipped and trained, but extremely motivated fighters throw themselves at US spearheads. Embedded reporters capture scenes of horror: teenagers with Kalashnikovs and other outdated equipment ripped apart and cut down by .50 caliber machineguns and airbursting mortar shells; giant splatters of gore on tank hulls from prematurely detonated suicide bombs; ritual executions of captured Allied prisoners... In the West they were signs of the fanatic enemy of democracy and liberalism, in the east they were images of the forces of God against the Great Satan. Israeli troops recieved a particular brand of hate. Bodies that were captured in fighting were hacked to pieces and strewn outside of stronghold towns and cities before being flattened by Israeli tanks and artillery.

The war against governments seemed like it would be at an end by 2007, with the Ayatollah fleeing to Pakistan in October. But things were about to take a turn for the worse in Saudi Arabia.

The military of Saudi Arabia, along with much of the nation, was disgusted by the idea of hosting the US in a war against the rest of the Mideast, especially when the US was collaborating with Israel. The Holy Land would not tolerate Americans much longer.

On November 2nd, outside Mecca, a group of people calling themselves 'The Servants of Allah' announced their intentions to expel the foreign invaders who desecrated Saudi Arabia with their presence. They called for the toppling of the Kingdom of Saud and a return to a pan-Islamic empire. Much of the Saudi Military, particularly the SANG units guarding Saudi Arabia's holy sites, revolted. The rest of the SANG seemed to fall in line after the death of the Crown Prince from a carbomb attack on an evacuation convoy. It was clear many inside the Saudi government were prepared to betray the House of Saud, who were 'no longer serving Islam'.

British Forces were actually the first to meet the threat, securing vital oilfields from those who wanted to cut supply to the infidels. British troops beat back suicidal masses while the Royal Navy moved to secure the Mandeb. At the moment, African Muslims were streaming across to 'fight the infidels' from Sudan, Somalia, and various other African nations.

With the Ayatollah establishing himself in Pakistan, the last feasible stronghold of the CACG, Indian invasion seemed imminent. Afghanistan had since been assaulted by a NATO task force. German and Spanish forces assumed quick control over the nation, aiding Northern Alliance troops into defeat of the Taliban.


With America to the west, NATO to the north and India to the east, Pakistan was out of options. He surrendered. While many Pakistani people seemed angry, he said it was a sacrifice that had to be made to 'prevent India and their allies from savaging our nation'. The decision was likewise accepted by the Allies, who were eager to see China back away.

Of course, China was not without problems of its own. Dozens of Islamist rebellion movements wracked Xinjiang province, declaring a new Republic of East Turkistan. The Allies offer to turn a blind eye if China does the same while the Allies 'restructure' the governments of their allies. China reluctantly agrees.

In Chechnya, attacks intensify, and the Russian Army is put on full alert as Islamist attacks intensify there. But by the close of 2006, conventional fighting seems to be at an end.
 
Several Problems...

-According to the latest Defense Department Intelligence reports, Iran has at least 12 nuclear weapons, and the capability to make at least 3 per year. The problem is that even with the spy satellites we have at the moment, we have a hard time locating where those weapons are located. As such an invasion as the one you have proposed would be extremely dangerous, especially since an Israeli air raid similar to the 1983 Osirak attack on Iraq will not take out the threat.

-Second, consider that you would have Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), Rep John Murtha (D-PA), and Representative Walter Jones (R-NC) killing any proposition of the expansion of the War Powers Act in an effort to create an "American Legion". Consider that this a major political problem. JUst consider that the House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate would have to pass such a measure with a 2/3 majority to get such an action approved...

-Third, in terms of Moscow, consider that you have the problem of domestic attacks on the capital. Just remember that in 2002, the Chechnyans were able to take 700 hostages in downtown Moscow, killing 130 people. Consider that there have been little if no changes in security protocols since then. As such similar attacks would hit Moscow and St. Petersburg.

-Fourth, considering that you also are causing a military occupation of the religious sites of the Muslim World, you have caused relations with 1/3 of the world's population to collapse. Consider that you have caused the creation of foreign militia groups to be formed throughout the Muslim World. To make matters worse, you have given legitimacy to the beliefs of Osama bin Laden and his ilk....
 
-Err... Source? All USGov and Israeligov info I've seen says Iraq, as of now, is about a few months from having enough material for a nuke in OTL. You are very right about the problems of a 1981 style airstrike... There are over 100 sites. The US and Israel have had to go through massive air campaigns to fully eliminate the program, though from what I've heard, strikes at Bushsehr and Natanz would delay the program by several months at the least.

-It would be very controversial. But it's more likely to be voted for than the draft...

-Good call, I'll add in some more detailed info about the Russia issue later.

-Yeah, next up will be the fallout in Indonesia, North Africa, and plenty of riots in Europe, leading to a much more conservative EU.
 

CalBear

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Mr_ Bondoc said:
-According to the latest Defense Department Intelligence reports, Iran has at least 12 nuclear weapons, and the capability to make at least 3 per year. The problem is that even with the spy satellites we have at the moment, we have a hard time locating where those weapons are located. As such an invasion as the one you have proposed would be extremely dangerous, especially since an Israeli air raid similar to the 1983 Osirak attack on Iraq will not take out the threat.

I believe that you have mixed up the capabilities & inventories of the DPRK & Iran. The data you quote here is exactly the same as the worst case scenario projected for North Korea. I have seen no open source intel that gives the Iranian's independent nuclear capacity within the next two years. It is certainly possible that Iran has purchased a weapon (or more than one) from Pakistan or some other source, however, manufacture is not within their means (as yet).
 

CalBear

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Another interesting post.

It would be surprising if the U.S., even with the full intergration of NATO forces, could overrun Iran as quickly as is projected. Iran is almost the anti-Iraq; it is quite mountainous, and is roughly 3 times the size of Iraq (IIRC it is about 80% the size of the continental U.S.). The country also took WW I style casualities in the war with Iraq and didn't flinch. The end result would never be in doubt, but the speed of that victory is something of a question.

Also, where did the IDF forces come in? I can imagine no positive impact that they would provide that would not by far counterbalanced by the impact of Jewish troops in combat so far from home. This is particularly true since the IDF is not that large of a force (the total Israeli population, excluding the West Bank is just over Six million) and relies heavily on rreserve call-up to fill the ranks. This has serious impact on the economy when a general call-up is made. I would agree that use of Israeli facilities would be of much logistical value, however, even that level of particapation would greatly impact the post combat phase of any conflict with Islamic states. Overall it would better for Israel to go on defensive Alert and sit this one out.

Constructive (I hope) input notwithstanding, this is a very interesting TL.

Best of luck with the effort.
 
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CalBear said:
I believe that you have mixed up the capabilities & inventories of the DPRK & Iran. The data you quote here is exactly the same as the worst case scenario projected for North Korea. I have seen no open source intel that gives the Iranian's independent nuclear capacity within the next two years. It is certainly possible that Iran has purchased a weapon (or more than one) from Pakistan or some other source, however, manufacture is not within their means (as yet).

Actually, I am quoting from The Atlantic Monthly (12/2004), with an article from Jim Fallows, which cites several sources. For further information, check out:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200412/fallows
 
2007-

[South America]

The US war here was short, quick, and amazingly surgical. It would be the greatest success story for the US during the war. Peacekeeping roles were turned over primarily to Allied South American nations and US trained militia and police groups. In Venezuela, the popular revolt that destabilized Chavez results in many leftist groups taking a lower profile.

Argentina, Brazil, and Venezuelan governments all sign the Treaty of Panama City, which establishes limits on nuclear development and offensive arms, and gives the US rights to base troops in small bases in some countries. The US is careful not to demand concessions or 'humiliate' the nations, hoping to divert resources from the South American theater to the ongoing violence in the Mideast.

[The Mideast]

Allied forces now had a difficult task on their hands. Seeking to destroy conventional warmaking capability first, they had left many areas rife with guerilla insurgencies.

The US would avoid overturning governments, and just monitor elections. Iraq in particular was becoming a difficult affair to handle. Turkey demanded the country remain unified, though the Kurds were quietly given a semi-autonomous state. Many lower level Ba'athists remained in power, though it was expected Shia muslims would regain power in any future election. In Iran, the Ayatollah and other theocractic, authoritarian elements of the government were simply lopped off. In Saudi Arabia, Allied forces would promise democratic elections: But would make sure that a pro-Western leader ended up in the driver's seat. Liberalist ideology aside, the West could not afford a radical regime in Saudi Arabia.

In addition to US-EU Allied troops, Indonesia and Egypt contributed troops. A campagin was started to integrate Democracy and Islamic values together, though it would be a long road ahead before anything came of it.

But in China, things were not going quite as well. The Uygur people and their 'Republic of East Turkestan' quickly fell, but the ideas behind it raged on. Even postwar Arabia looked like an improvement to the Muslims of Xinjiang. In fact, many Muslims in Xinjiang call for the US to liberate them. The Chinese government ruthlessly suppresses any sign of dissidence in the region, and few confirmable knowledge about the rebellion was availible until a digital video recording, stuck onto a USB card smuggled out into Kazakhstan hit the world media. Hundreds of millions watched in horror as Chinese soldiers (confirmed by uniform, tactical analysis and the unique Type 95 rifle) massacred suspected dissidents. Those hoping for a repeat of Tiananmen Square heroics were sadly disappointed as tank platoons rolled through crowds and demolished buildings. In late December, the US citizen was caught between a rock and a hard place. Take an economic hit from a loss of trade with China, or let millions live at the mercy of the Chinese army?

The condemnations marred the Holiday season as China and India militarized their borders.

[Domestic US]

In face of skyrocketing petrol prices, President McCain called for a 'national effort' to revitalize the US economy and pursue alternative energy. Many called it the equivalent of a new space race, to grab a hold of a technology that could reduce the need for US intervention in the Mideast and elsewhere.

Detroit sees new hope with the possibility of a Chinese embargo (With China projected to be a force in automaking in the future), and begins lobbying Congress for funds for their alternative energy development programs, and an embargo on Chinese goods.

Wal-Mart is horrified at the idea of a Chinese embargo, but can't afford to speak up. Advertising against the corporation continues, which alone is one of China's top trading partners. A viral 'counteradvertisement' hits the internet, with a picture of the Chinese massacre in Xinjiang, a Wal-Mart smiley-face superimposed over a Red Army soldier and anti Wal-Mart slogans. Many like it soon follow.
 
2008-2010

[Domestic US]

Mark Warner wins the 2008 election, primarily due to a split among the Republican party over a Giuliani nomination. Warner promises to keep US commitment to free trade, but wants to reduce US involvement in foreign wars. Though the 'wars of hegemony' (as they are now being referred to by many) were popular with Americans earlier, the Western occupation in the Mideast is quickly mounting.

American markets are recovering after the massive spike in oil prices, thanks to the relatively quick stabilization of Venezuela and the increase in Canadian oil technology investment. However, many Democrats are still angered by Warner's fiscal conservatism, and it seems that with both political parties facing major rifts, the US political system may be due for large changes.

Alternative energy research increases, and the US does have over 150,000 hydrogen and ethanol fueled vehicles on the road by 2010. Ford wows auto-show voyeurs with a high performance ethanol fueled line it plans to release 'by 2015'. GMC and Chrysler quickly scramble to match the offer.

[American Military/Trends]

Defense spending remains on high priority as the US shifts towards network centric warfare. With the use of ballistic and advanced cruise missiles in the Gulf, the US starts up a low-level 'missile defense initiative', with bases established in Poland, Alaska, and contracts for one in Diego Garcia.

The US also backs down from its trend of 'lighter is better' warfare. Though the Stryker was successful, the US tank force won by margins that disturbed many. Intelligence reports of a newly upgraded Type-98 based on Russian 'Black Eagle' concepts lead to a plan for a new generation of Abrams upgrades by 2010. The possibility of a new conventional arms race with China seems apparent as they promise a next generation fighter by 2012.

American investment in infantry is higher than ever. The Force Warrior 2010 concept was seen as a success, and newer, more advanced concepts in body-armor are being fielded by US occupation troops.

[China]

China itself was hit hard by the war. While the US alternative energy programs were beginning to bear fruit and new oil supplies opened themselves up, the loss of Iranian oil exports was especially damaging to the Chinese government. As a result, China stepped up purchases of oil from Sudan, Libya, and Indonesia.

However, as the nations of the Mideast rebuilt with the majority holding new elections by 2010, China looked on at the oppurtunity to gain support among the 'Political Islamists', those who wanted revenge against the West. The Chinese made apologies to citizens of Xinjiang, and offered them greater autonomy. Though those inside Xinjiang were only slightly comforted, the message it sent to the Mideast was far more significant.

[Northern Eurasia]

The EU found itself most devastatingly hit by the oil price shock, shifting a vast portion of its purchases to Russia. Russia itself was providing increasing amounts of oil to both Europe and China, but tensions between India and China over Pakistan and oil were forcing Russia to pick sides.

[South/East Asia]

In the aftermath of the war between India and Pakistan, Indian troops held defacto control over Kashmir. The resulting tensions between the two governments was enormous. The war also created a huge increase in arms purchases by India from Russia. China protested as Pakistan was forced into a corner by Allied forces in the war, and was only more enraged as India canceled Chinese contracts to explore Rajasthan for oil.

As a 'goodwill gesture', India and Pakistan agreed to a joint pipeline, but one that hardly served Chinese interests. India was hoping in the long term to procure oil for its own economic development, often at the expense of China.

[The Mideast]

Elections in formerly-occupied Syria and Iran brought about governments that were quietly anti-American. They demanded foreign withdrawal by 2012, and the West was forced to quietly oblige to the governments it had fostered. The fear of a democracy bringing in more anti-American governments was apparent in many states, though in Saudi Arabia and Iraq a more negative attitude towards Politicized Islam.

Many Islamic papers call for a rebirth of the 'Pan Islamic state', but the governments themselves are not as eager to arouse suspicion. Though strict military controls have been imposed, the Islamic world continues to unite.
 
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