The War in (the) 'Nam(s)

It occured to me the other day that when one references "The War in 'Nam" or something of a similar nature, they could be referencing Surinam as well as Vietnam. Stretching it further, one could also mean Namibia.

So, the challenge is, if you choose to accept it, have the United States engaged in a guerrila war in at least two of the three "nam" countries, with a POD after 1945.
 
Let's say that Gerald Ford wins the 1976 election. The US government quitely watches the growing war in Namibia and Angola, and begins sending limited clandestine aid to South Africa via the CIA as the Soviet and Cuban involvement increases. In addition, let's say that Angola allows the Soviets to maintain bases on Angolan territory, making the situation look much bleaker for anti-communist forces.

When PW Botha becomes Prime Minister of South Africa in 1978, talks begin with the US government on increased involvement in the Namibian situation. Botha needs more US help to prevent the Angolan communists from exporting their revolution to Namibia via SWAPO. However, the US is hesitant to provide aid due to apartheid. So, a deal is struck. Botha will begin to downsize apartheid policies and liberalize to a degree as well as agree to the principle of an independent Namibia in exchange for a direct US presence in Namibia.

The US begins by sending military advisors, and slowly increases its presence as Angola builds up support for SWAPO. Eventually, the US builds up some 10,000 troops in Namibia under the guise of peacekeepers providing a stable environment for the creation of a democratic government in Namibia. This US presence was at its peak in 1987, as the Cubans and the South Africans duelled in Angola. While US forces did not officially participate in cross-border operations, US forces did engage Angolan and Cuban forces which crossed the Namibian frontier several times. Most of the US military operations were focused on SWAPO and on providing aid to anti-communist guerillas.

With a nailed down deal on Namibian independence reached by 1989 with all parties involved agreeing, the US began to draw down its forces in Namibia, and by 1994, the US presence was gone.
 

Thande

Donor
Hey, this is original...

The idea of the US being involved in the Angola business and that spilling over into South African-occupied Namibia is reasonable, although I wonder if they would actually refer to the main conflict zone as 'Namibia'...
 
Hey, this is original...

The idea of the US being involved in the Angola business and that spilling over into South African-occupied Namibia is reasonable, although I wonder if they would actually refer to the main conflict zone as 'Namibia'...

They have little casus belli to be directly involved in Angola though. I cannot see the US launching a conventional invasion of Angola, a regime supported massively by both the Cubans and the Soviets. Conventional involvement like that would be widely condemned around the world as blatant aggression. In addition, it would certainly provoke an undesirable response from the Soviets.

If you put the troops in Namibia, its a whole lot more diplomatically and politically acceptable, as you frame it as preserving the stability for a democratic government to form and you save the large costs that would be incurred by fighting a large conventional war in Angola. Angola is decidedly communist by this point, and the best the US can hope for is to keep it from spreading to Namibia.
 

Thande

Donor
They have little casus belli to be directly involved in Angola though. I cannot see the US launching a conventional invasion of Angola, a regime supported massively by both the Cubans and the Soviets. Conventional involvement like that would be widely condemned around the world as blatant aggression. In addition, it would certainly provoke an undesirable response from the Soviets.

If you put the troops in Namibia, its a whole lot more diplomatically and politically acceptable, as you frame it as preserving the stability for a democratic government to form and you save the large costs that would be incurred by fighting a large conventional war in Angola. Angola is decidedly communist by this point, and the best the US can hope for is to keep it from spreading to Namibia.
But Namibia was essentially part of South Africa at this point, de facto if not quite de jure, and I'm not sure if it was even usually referred to as Namibia in common parlance rather than South-West Africa...
 
But Namibia was essentially part of South Africa at this point, de facto if not quite de jure, and I'm not sure if it was even usually referred to as Namibia in common parlance rather than South-West Africa...

Exactly. That's what makes it easier, as South Africa can be seen as an ally in the Cold War, so they provide the opening for the US to come in by requesting help in defeating the SWAPO insurgents. Also, considering SWAPO stands for South-West Africa People's Organization, I suppose you're right on common parlance, although Namibia is easier to type than South-West Africa.
 
I've always thought that one of the coolest phrases in English was to croak out "Back in 'Nam, Charlie..." It's just cool. No offense to any veterans who participated in that whole thing, though.
 
Namibia's ruling party still calls itself the South West African People's Organisation.

And people here in SA refer to Namibia as Nam quite often. Its also cool to think my dad was a veteran of the war in Nam :rolleyes:
 
It occured to me the other day that when one references "The War in 'Nam" or something of a similar nature, they could be referencing Surinam as well as Vietnam. Stretching it further, one could also mean Namibia.

So, the challenge is, if you choose to accept it, have the United States engaged in a guerrila war in at least two of the three "nam" countries, with a POD after 1945.

Suriname was under American protection during WWII (because of the bauxiet there). Just have the Dutch sell Suriname to the Americans, just like the Brits sold bases for destroyers.

You could then have a botched decolonization, with some sort of conflict arising. Suriname has a hugely diverse population, with hindoes from India, people from Africa (in the coastal strip) and still remnants of the original population further inland.
If anything religion could be a start for a war there; if not between islam and christianity, it could be between islam and hindoe.
 
The idea of a fully anarchic situation breaking out in American-occupied Surinam is quite piques my interest... If this were to happen, as FryingDoughnuts suggests, what would be the effects on WW2? And how could you get America into either of the other two 'Nams?

Also, an addendum to the OP: Extra points if:
  • All three 'Nams have wars going on in them
  • If (assuming you are going by the 'two-out-of-three' rule) Surinam and Namibia have wars in them, rather than OTL Vietnam + something else
  • Or if the conflicts all occur at the same time
 
I got a vision of a TL where NAMBLA set up a secret lair, al la mad scientist, in Surinam and the US deploy the Marines to take them out.
 
For Surinam, what about having Desi Bourterse, the General who led the military coup of 1980 cozy up to the Soviets? This could be used in conjunction with the above mentioned Namibia TL as Ford's successor (most likely a democrat) decides to launch an invasion somewhat akin to Grenada to show he's "tough on communism"....
 
For Surinam, what about having Desi Bourterse, the General who led the military coup of 1980 cozy up to the Soviets? This could be used in conjunction with the above mentioned Namibia TL as Ford's successor (most likely a democrat) decides to launch an invasion somewhat akin to Grenada to show he's "tough on communism"....

I don't think my Namibian scenario is too plausible if a Democrat suceeds Ford as they will be much harsher on the white-minority regime in South Africa.

If we can avoid the Iran hostage crisis, I think that a Republican (probably Reagan) will win the presidential election.
 
For Surinam, what about having Desi Bourterse, the General who led the military coup of 1980 cozy up to the Soviets? This could be used in conjunction with the above mentioned Namibia TL as Ford's successor (most likely a democrat) decides to launch an invasion somewhat akin to Grenada to show he's "tough on communism"....

Although I'm a Dutchman (and not a donut as Roberto suggests :rolleyes:), I have no idea what the political preferences of Bouterse are; left/right whatever.

But then again, he's only a sergeant, plenty of others available if he's not commie enough. :D
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
For Surinam, what about having Desi Bourterse, the General who led the military coup of 1980 cozy up to the Soviets? This could be used in conjunction with the above mentioned Namibia TL as Ford's successor (most likely a democrat) decides to launch an invasion somewhat akin to Grenada to show he's "tough on communism"....


It's quite possible actually. In fact Bouterse was very leftist and invited Cuban advisors into Surinam. However after the invasion of Grenada Bouterse kicked out the Cubans and concentrated on narcotics.
 
Top