The Von Mudra Line A Preview!

Would he take over the 5th army at this time? I mean he wasn't in their command structure, just an outside specialist brought in to plan the artillery program for the offensive.

Also, Mudra was strategically more like Falkenhayn than Ludendorff. Ludendorff was so well liked because he was for the decisive, maneuver warfare model, whereas men like Mudra were supporting the attritional, step-by-step model to preserve lives instead of the roll-of-the-dice destruction battle model that Ludendorff and the traditionalists in the military believed in. So, while I am sure that he was famous and well liked by those that watched his genius at work, he still did not have the political following in the army or in the Reichstag that catapulted Ludendorff to power.

As long as Mudra maintains the attritional approach to war, which is my read of the man, he won't have support from the cult of personality that Ludendorff used/was used by to get to power.

Mudra wasn't just a specialist at Verdun. The artillery scripts were his but he was subordinate to the crown prince and commanded the spearhead in the initial stages. Being the hero of Verdun could easily create a similar cult of personality around the man especially when the Brusilov offensive hurt the prestige of H-L at around the same time. This followed up by leading a great counterattack at the Somme would make him probably the msot well known general in the army
 
Would he take over the 5th army at this time? I mean he wasn't in their command structure, just an outside specialist brought in to plan the artillery program for the offensive.

Also, Mudra was strategically more like Falkenhayn than Ludendorff. Ludendorff was so well liked because he was for the decisive, maneuver warfare model, whereas men like Mudra were supporting the attritional, step-by-step model to preserve lives instead of the roll-of-the-dice destruction battle model that Ludendorff and the traditionalists in the military believed in. So, while I am sure that he was famous and well liked by those that watched his genius at work, he still did not have the political following in the army or in the Reichstag that catapulted Ludendorff to power.

As long as Mudra maintains the attritional approach to war, which is my read of the man, he won't have support from the cult of personality that Ludendorff used/was used by to get to power.

Rast would have to double check me...I don't recall if the XVI corps was part of the 4th or the 5th army in 1915.. but either way he was a successful corps commander its not unrealistic for him to be promoted if there was an army opening if the Crown Prince died or was incapacitated... he and Knobelsdorff got along quite well
 
XVI. AK belonged to 5. German Army. - Von Mudra was old enough (important in an army where seniority matters) to become an army commander.
IOTL, the Germans used 'Angriffsgruppen' at Verdun, both Gallwitz (West) and Mudra (Ost) were semi-independent under 5. Army, in fact army commanders under command of another army command.
If Verdun is successful, the Crown Prince will get a part of the glory. That was intented from the start. It will make him favour Mudra even more.
It would be quite logical that from there Mudra procedes and gets an army of his own at the Somme.
 
Preview Part 3

The Somme Battlefield after Mudra's great counterattack August 1916

GeneralOberst Bruno Von Mudra walked about the battlefield at dusk examing these newfangled British "tanks" that had knocked out quite a few of his machine gun pill boxes until they could be destroyed with mortar or field artillery over open sites. At heart and by trade Mudra was an engineer and all things mechanical interested him. He crawled about a machine that had been ditched with engine troubles and that was relatively undamaged and studied the giant metal beast for hours before one of his staff officers came for him.

Mudra: These machines are remarkable. You know Major, before the war a member of the court of Saxony introduced me to an Austrian engineer who wanted to build an armored tractor... I have to tell you that until this day I thought the man was a crack pot
Major Von Vielwith: They are ungainly beasts and we defeated them soundly sir
Mudra: But that doesn't mean we can't learn something from them. If I was designing such a machine I would make it much lighter and more manueverable with better vision to cross trenches.
Vielwith: I wouldn't want to be aboard one of those. Reports from the trench companies indicate they went up like torches after being smashed by our light mortars.
Mudra: Of course... this is the size of a garage and I looked at the engine it couldn't possibly go more than 10km's per hour over level terrain. Vielwith I want you to dispatch my artillery tractor battalion up here and have them tow all the ones that arent damaged to bad back to the railhead, then I want them sent to the engineer school in Metz
Vielwith: Jawol sir

Mudra, as head of the engineer branch would dispatch his finest officers to study the new tank in greater detail and have them design a superior machine that could crush British machine guns.
 
There isnt any guarantee that the German tanks will be any better than the A7V in rl. Well they would probably get more funding and focus along with more production if he takes H-L's place. Which makes me think H-L are two people obviously if Mudra rose to that level of command would he need someone to be his Lundendorff? (Or Lundendorff himself).
 
There isnt any guarantee that the German tanks will be any better than the A7V in rl. Well they would probably get more funding and focus along with more production if he takes H-L's place. Which makes me think H-L are two people obviously if Mudra rose to that level of command would he need someone to be his Lundendorff? (Or Lundendorff himself).

Knobelsdorff will be his deputy. Mudra has seen the tanks in action first hand and given his immense technical expertise he can design something more practical than the A7V... maybe not up the genius of Rast's Kannobils but still some capability for strongpoint destruction
 
Knobelsdorff will be his deputy.
You just love picking the most obscure people dont you? :D If its really basic then forgive me, western front (or anything in ww1 besides the balkans) isnt my best area of study. :eek:

Google why have you failed me!
 
You just love picking the most obscure people dont you? :D If its really basic then forgive me, western front (or anything in ww1 besides the balkans) isnt my best area of study. :eek:

Google why have you failed me!

Chief of staff to the crown prince and the 5th army... tomorrow when I am around my books I will try to provide some details about him, I think I even have a photo, highly regarded as one of the top minds in the General Staff. A personal friend of Mudra and EVF... he did all the heavy lifting in the 5th army while the crown prince did the photo ops. Basically he was the Hoffman of the west

perhaps Rast could share whatever details he has about him... (any info is always appreciated)
 
Concerning the tanks: The important issue is who gets responsibility for developing the tactical frame for their employment.
IOTL, the Motor Transport Branch was charged. They had no idea about real combat and were more famous for their rear area black market deals than for bravery under fire.
Here, obviously, the engineers will be charged. They are a rather aggressive branch (originally providing hand grenade throwers and axe bearers for close combat, later going for flame throwers, mining operations - and assault formations) with a very good understanding of all arms operations. Expect them to come up with sound technical demands for a vehicle to participate in the evolving German technique of all arms assault.
(IOTL, this technique was designed without any regard to tanks.)

Konstantin Schmidt von Knobelsdorf: As difficult and avid for fame as Ludendorff, but not quite as brilliant as organiser and logistician. Nevertheless, a sound and capable worker, although operationally more conventional than Ludendorff, Hoffmann or Mudra.
 
I decided it would be better to abandon my tragic TL and help yours. Because you have a mass of similar ideas. So a few ideas on where I was going to be based on:
Verdun:
-Attack on both sides of the Meuse, the western region of the front would hit quite small forces the day after the start of the main attack.
-When planning the date of transfer from 11 to 21 February, so change in the weather is not surprising the Germans during the artillery fire, and they can surprise their attack French: German losses less, even greater losses in the first days of the French.
- March 8-9 Rotamaster von Scheele recording in a report during the attack on Fort Vaux that came to it, but he had not conquered the fort. Germans did not lose momentum on the senseless, savage attacks on the fort, to get it ASAP, because thet gave to the public that it was taken when it wasn't.
- Accidental discovery by a German plane / blimp of "Sacred Road", the shift Zeppelin belonging to the Army from the attacks on England to Verdun, one, or more during the campaign bombing of the sacred road, perhaps by gas projectiles (from the airship).
-In the later part of the campaign, the main direction of impact: the more Montzeville and Coil de Froide Terre ", to move closer to the city
Somma: retreat into deeper positions, rather than keepeng and the old ones and stoping the British deep in salient.
Tanks: 2 British tanks captured by the Germans in 15 September in a driving abilities. Later: instead A7V: more armored artillery tractor. Minimum size "box", open at the top based on the chassis A7V: In theory, the transport of guns and ammunition directly to the first line. Use them at Cambrai in 1917, with field armament: MG, mortars, light guns mounted on a solid front. Based on the experience of Cambrai: during the spring offensive of 1918 appears larger number of tanks: something like the LK with 57 mm cannon, perhaps in the turret, and maybe even something a la Kanobil, or "WW I Stugs". (I always imagined Kanobils as something like "WW I Stugs")
I also have some interesting ideas on ending the war: a ceasefire, the revolution in Germany, Versailles and eastern Europe, so if you want: PM
 
The first generation Kanobils are WW1 Sturmgeschütze, field cannons packed on a mechanised chassis without much sophistication.
The A7V grew so big because of the original specification: Either carry armament or 8 tons of supplys. For both you need space, but much more so for the supplies than for the initially planned armament.
If not tasked with a dual role, the resulting German 'Sturm-Panzerkraftwagen' (short: STUPAK) may well look like the A7V-U3 design. 30 tons of weight would be the equivalent to the British rhomboids, thus seemingly 'normal'.
 
Concerning the tanks: The important issue is who gets responsibility for developing the tactical frame for their employment.
IOTL, the Motor Transport Branch was charged. They had no idea about real combat and were more famous for their rear area black market deals than for bravery under fire.
Here, obviously, the engineers will be charged. They are a rather aggressive branch (originally providing hand grenade throwers and axe bearers for close combat, later going for flame throwers, mining operations - and assault formations) with a very good understanding of all arms operations. Expect them to come up with sound technical demands for a vehicle to participate in the evolving German technique of all arms assault.
(IOTL, this technique was designed without any regard to tanks.)

Konstantin Schmidt von Knobelsdorf: As difficult and avid for fame as Ludendorff, but not quite as brilliant as organiser and logistician. Nevertheless, a sound and capable worker, although operationally more conventional than Ludendorff, Hoffmann or Mudra.

This is about to go live :D
My intention is to use Theodore Sproessner as the father of combined arms development (inclusive of tanks) Sproessner commanded the Wurtembourg Mountain Battalion (Rommel was his XO/Chief trouble shooter/task force commander du joure). The WGB had its own organic mortars and artillery and where trained extensively in operating over tough terrain with limited logistical support. Their officers where given a wide degree of latitude and expected to take initiative at all times. Of note as well was that this group was more trained in communications and radio discipline than most other formations in Europe. Their successes in Romania (assuming my POD butterflies them away from Caporettoro and onto this task) make them a fine formation to experiment with tanks (IE they could go to a low intensity sector like the Vosages, which the WGB did frequently anyway to season new personel, and develop a forerunner of a panzergrenadier battalion... Sproessner served in Mudra's 16th Corps in 1914 and 1915 so the choice wouldn't require any POD's since Mudra rated him as a very capable officer in OTL
 
Mudra, as head of the engineer branch would dispatch his finest officers to study the new tank in greater detail and have them design a superior machine that could crush British machine guns.

This could lead to something more aking to LK II than A7V, with vehicles like Sturmpanzerwagen Oberschlesien-prototype following suit if the first tests are promising enough.
 

abc123

Banned
That would be a good idea, all i was able to learn from the German wiki was that he was in charge of the army engineers, lead the offensive into France and was shot by the Duke of Mecklenburg in a Cheny style hunting accident although that last one may have been an error in translation. :confused:

Trough my coommand of Deutsche sprache isn't quite excellent I think that article say's that von Mudra is buried in forest belonging to Duke of Mecklenburg, because he was a great hunter...
;)
 
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