The Vision of Temujin

I don't know if the Mongols would encounter Christianity without their forays into Persia and Asia Minor. They may perhaps pick it up eventually through trade, but I feel they would remain true to either their own polytheism or convert to other far eastern Religions like Buddhism or Daoism. I think Confucianism would be too traditional for the Mongols, and they would try and eradicate it.

A minority of Mongols were Christian already during Genghis Khan's time, so there is no doubt that the Mongols would be exposed to it. Nestorian Christianity did not die out in China until around this time anyways, so vestiges would remain.

Confucianism, while being very traditional, would be too important to the Mongols to get rid of: the scholarly tradition produced most (though I think technically not all) of the bureaucrats, which the Mongols would be dependent on for ruling their vast domain.
 
I don't know if the Mongols would encounter Christianity without their forays into Persia and Asia Minor. They may perhaps pick it up eventually through trade, but I feel they would remain true to either their own polytheism or convert to other far eastern Religions like Buddhism or Daoism. I think Confucianism would be too traditional for the Mongols, and they would try and eradicate it.

I think they'll remain peacefully apathetic to other religions other than their own.
 

Delvestius

Banned
A minority of Mongols were Christian already during Genghis Khan's time, so there is no doubt that the Mongols would be exposed to it. Nestorian Christianity did not die out in China until around this time anyways, so vestiges would remain.

Confucianism, while being very traditional, would be too important to the Mongols to get rid of: the scholarly tradition produced most (though I think technically not all) of the bureaucrats, which the Mongols would be dependent on for ruling their vast domain.

1. I see, I thought they were only exposed after they conquered west.

2. I did not consider that fact, that is very true. I figured since it propogated Chinese culture to it's core, it would prove as an obstacle to complete "Mongolization". I did not consider however the effects that would have on the government and science.
 

Sumeragi

Banned
Very unrealistic in terms of the the Chinese conquest. My best guess is that the Mongols will stop at the Yangtze.

However, not sure about Korea. Korea was able to wage a 40 year conflict with the Mongols, and if the Mongols did not have the resources of the west..... It might just be independent to the end. Also, the Mongols never had any plans to annex Goryeo, deeming it the "Land of the Rainbow" (a name that is still used in Mongolia to mean Korea).
 
the black death to europe would indeed be postponed, or not even get there.
On the other hand it will still ravage south-east asia ( i read some accounts where some chinese cities lost 90% of their population).

No black death will mean for europe that the renaissance will take longer to arrive. It also will mean that the feudal structures will keep existing longer as after the black death the lack of workforce enabled peons to free themselves due to the high demand of labour.

But just this will mean loads and loads of butterflies.
 

Delvestius

Banned
How is the conquest of China unrealistic? The Yuan Dynasty founded by Kublai Khan began in 1271, and that was with maybe one third to one half of the entire Mongolian force. Mongol Armies continued to raid and pillage indochina intot he latter half of the the thirteenth century, making them tribute states... I don't understand your reasoning.
 

Delvestius

Banned
the black death to europe would indeed be postponed, or not even get there.
On the other hand it will still ravage south-east asia ( i read some accounts where some chinese cities lost 90% of their population).

No black death will mean for europe that the renaissance will take longer to arrive. It also will mean that the feudal structures will keep existing longer as after the black death the lack of workforce enabled peons to free themselves due to the high demand of labour.

But just this will mean loads and loads of butterflies.

That's very Interesting, I had forgot the Black Death was a central cause of the Ranaissance. As for the state of Eastern Asia, would this mean a breakdown of Mongol society by the mid fourteenth century?
 

Sumeragi

Banned
How is the conquest of China unrealistic? The Yuan Dynasty founded by Kublai Khan began in 1271, and that was with maybe one third to one half of the entire Mongolian force. Mongol Armies continued to raid and pillage indochina intot he latter half of the the thirteenth century, making them tribute states... I don't understand your reasoning.
Because the power of the Yuan was based on the prosperity that the Mongols enjoyed by receiving the tributes and trade benefits from their western empire. Without that initial conquest by Genghis, we would be in the situation where a still relatively weak Mongol force would have to use up much of their forces against a still considerably strong Song.
 

Hendryk

Banned
I think Confucianism would be too traditional for the Mongols, and they would try and eradicate it.
Confucianism has by then been upgraded to its 2.0 version, Neo-Confucianism, thanks to Song Dynasty thinkers such as Zhu Xi (who has been called the Thomas Aquinas of China, though technically it's Thomas Aquinas who should be called the Zhu Xi of Christendom). It's well-entrenched and here to stay short of completely killing off the scholar-official class, and that would be an incredibly stupid thing to do since nobody would be left to administer the empire.

The Mongols in TTL look like they're going to turn out like their cousins the Manchus in OTL. Not that it's a bad way to go.
 

Delvestius

Banned
Because the power of the Yuan was based on the prosperity that the Mongols enjoyed by receiving the tributes and trade benefits from their western empire. Without that initial conquest by Genghis, we would be in the situation where a still relatively weak Mongol force would have to use up much of their forces against a still considerably strong Song.

While that is an interesting point, I feel that the Mongol Horde at full power can easily match a third of the Horde with above average equipment.
 
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