'the Victorious': Seleucus Nicator and the world after Alexander

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So hostilities are resumed and the first round goes (on points) to Antiochus II. I assumed that the bit about Ptolemy II ceding "all lands taken in Asia Minor" referred to any lands he'd occupied during the war, rather than those he held at the start. Still southern Syria and the Phoenician cites is no small prize.

Interesting that while great armies are clashing over wide lands and rich cities in Syria, almost as much attention is being paid to the struggle for a few very small "cities" in the Aeolian uplands. When you look at the first map you wonder how Epirus could have raised enough of an army for the Macedonian kings (let alone the Romans) to notice. Classical Greece can sometimes feel like a very small sack with an awful lot of angry cats in it.


And Alexander had his skirmishers, such as the famous Agriani. He basically grew up fighting the Illyrians in the Balkan mountains, so he must have known something about the limitations of the phalanx. ("Peltast" is a risky term, though - they start out as javelin-throwing skirmishers and by the Late Macedonian period some of them seem to have mutated into phalanx spearmen). Your point about the Seleucids getting much of their infantry from areas with no hoplite/phalanx tradition is a good one.

I think my reading has focussed more on the Macedonians in the west and maybe contains too many Roman-based accounts of "and the Hellenistic phalanx charged the legions head on, only to be flanked and destroyed".


I thought the sparabara were a formation with a single rank of spear/shield men protecting 9 ranks of pure archers (bows and daggers only, no shields)? And that it was infamously incapable of taking Greek hoplites head-on (vis Marathon)? Had there been reforms later, or am I thinking of the Kardaka?

It is truly insane to me that the Epirotes were able to always be an absolute pain in everybody's ass. To be fully honest, Greece itself is far from my specialism (nor is military history, I'm an economic and cultural historian first and foremost) but I also totally understand that Ptolemaic foreign and cultural relations in East Africa is not for everybody and that Greece is also a lot more familiar. I also tend to try and base my timelines on citable evidence as far as possible (at least at the beginning when things are close enough to OTL that it makes sense) which also tends to lead me to focus on particular areas. That said, I'm taking a step back from politics and war in the next few updates to talk more about culture, literature, economics etc.

To be fair, the idea of the Macedonian phalanx being outflanked by the more manoeuvrable legion has been popular (and even scholarly) opinion for a long time now. I really think it exposes the inherent issue in debating questions such as 'phalanx vs legion' because, fundamentally, neither of these were intended to be used in isolation but tend to be viewed that way by modern readers. Also a lot of it is more recent scholarship. As for the sparabara, the reading I was doing (largely Konijnendijk) gave me the impression that every rank had melee and bow weapons but only the front rank had wicker shields but that these could be, in some way, set down to form a wall so that, if one infantryman went down, the archers behind could (at need) readjust. Though, I will concede that I could be entirely incorrect about this point.

As for the Persian infantry vs Greek hoplites, that has also been a very popular opinion for a long time. To be fair, against an individual Macedonian phalanx I was certainly overhyping it. Against the classical hoplites, though, Persian infantry was often superior. This has been a very recent reappraisal but many scholars believe that, especially during the Persian Wars, the Persian infantry was often more heavily armed, and better trained, than the vast majority of Greek infantry. The real change only came with Philip II. It is, admittedly, difficult since the Greeks never really go much into detail and Herodotus is very obsessed with his 'Persians in pyjamas' imagery (even as we hear of plenty of heavily armoured soldiers in their army).​
 
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Chapter Nineteen
Chapter Nineteen: In the Court of the Silver King

From Macedonia to Persia:


The court life and court dynamics of Antiochus II are one of the most fascinating parts of his reign. Remember that, at the centre of the Seleucid Empire was the person of the king. First and foremost, everything revolved around the king. This was, of course, especially true for the court. The court was the venue for the highest levels of decision making in the Seleucid empire and it was through the court that the king was able to actually exert power. Every decision, every war, every political move was acted out (at least in part) in the environment of the court. At its most basic, the Hellenistic court was directly inspired by that constructed around Alexander during his campaigns and rule. Images such as the golden canopy and throne were directly copied from Alexander's court by almost all of the successor kings, as was the 'royal tent', the go-to for Hellenistic kings on the move in which the throne was erected and every decision took place, even if the king himself was absent. Certainly, Antiochus II's royal tent also included the fire pit and the requirement that generals burn incense within it before meetings. Banquets, likely adapted from both Macedonian and Persian practice by Alexander and the diadochs were also a common and popular part of court life. In particular, Antiochus II is known to have enjoyed an adaptation of the banquet style used by Peukestas in the 4th Century in which the attendees were laid out in concentric rings around a central set of statues (Philip and Alexander in Peukestas' case but Alexander and Seleucus for Antiochus II although Heracles, Dionysus, and Apollo were also used on occasions).

Many of these aspects appear to have originally been adapted from Persian precedents but, under the successors, had emerged into the distinctive Hellenistic 'style' of court behaviour. Even in Macedonia where, we can presume, there was no Persian audience to impress, most of these aspects continued to be used by the Hellenistic kings. With that said, the actual makeup of the court was not always the same. In Macedonia, Antipater and his successors had largely maintained a very military-focussed court. Unlike in the Seleucid or Ptolemaic kingdoms, the Macedonian court of the Antipatrids and Antigonids had rather few civilian officials and seems to have been comprised almost entirely of the military aristocracy of the kingdom (alongside a few floating elements such as exiles, philosophers etc.). Indeed, it also appears as a very unstructured court with admittance only on the basis of the king's choice. We may compare this to the much more structured (and hierarchical) Ptolemaic or Seleucid courts which also employed a much larger, and more variable, set of officials and interests.

During the early years of his reign, Antiochus' court seems to have followed the Macedonian pattern. Until about 254 BCE, we only hear of Greeks and Macedonians in the court, most of whom appear to be a collection of generals and other aristocrats. No civilian officials appear in any capacity as regular members of the court and even literary figures and philosophers are rare during this period. This, apparently, created no small amount of resentment. In 257 BCE, Antiochus II entertained a delegation from Babylonia complaining about his lack of visits to the region and their inability to access the king or request his help. Vague promises seem to have been made but apparently not fulfilled since, in 255 BCE, Antiochus sent soldiers to Uruk to arrest an aristocrat after he publicly complained about Antiochus' abandonment of Babylonia and openly questioned his legitimacy to rule, daring to suggest that Seleucus would have been a better king. Once in the city, however, his soldiers were set upon and murdered. In response, a larger force was sent and some seventeen wealthy aristocrats were arrested and tried. They would, however, be released the following year at the behest of queen Kleopatra.

From around 254 BCE onwards, we begin to see a marked change in the court of the empire. More traditionally Hellenistic features come in and, especially after the end of the Second Syrian War, the military character of the court is toned down somewhat. In a poem written by an Alexandrian poet sometime in the 240s or 230s, the so-called 'Court of the Silver King' (implied to be the court of Antiochus II) is described as being:

'...made up of all manner of wonderful things. There is nothing from anywhere that cannot be found in the court of the Silver King. Ministers and magistrates, officials and poets, philosophers and kings all milled together...'

Until his death in 219, Antiochus II's court was known to be the largest and, by far, the grandest of all the various Hellenistic courts. The image and splendour of the court of Antiochus II was both a marvel to the Romans, who described it as 'the greatest sight beheld by any man', and even became known as far as China as 'one of the wonders of the western empires'. In part, this was simply a reaction to the sheer size and dramatic growth and prosperity of the Seleucid kingdom under Antiochus' rule but it was also a very carefully constructed reality. From the late 250s, Antiochus and Kleopatra went out of their way to attract all manner of people to the court to bolster their own cultural and political credentials. Poets, philosophers, mathematicians, actors, famous Olympians and artists are all attested as visiting, and participating in, the vibrant court environment during this period. Indeed, it was through this venue that much of the 3rd Century cultural output of the Seleucid empire was made.

Of particular popularity was the so-called 'Dionyssey', a retelling of Dionysus' trip to India written sometime in the 230s by Sosthenes of Seleukeia. A so-called 'mock epic', the poem was famous for using Homeric formulae to imitate and even satirise both the form of epic and the stories of Alexander's and Seleucus' trips to India. Dionysus, obviously, is put in the place of the two Greek generals and presented as 'hopping back and forth' across the mountains in search of more conquests every time he grows bored back home. The story goes that Sosthenes, having written the piece, was summoned to Antiochus who demanded it be read to him. Fearing that his work would be seen as subversive and he executed, Sosthenes tried to burn the poem but was stopped and once again forced to read. During the telling, he is said to have tried three times to destroy the work, only to be foiled each time including by Antiochus himself who, enjoying the work so much, had it added to his personal collection and is said to have carried it everywhere.

Sosthenes, however, proved to be one of the more prolific writers of his period. Between c. 238 and his death in c. 202 BCE, he not only wrote the Dionyssey but several books of smaller poems, many of which take a satirical tone. He is also known, however, to have turned out at least one book of more bucolic poems, seeking to capture the beauty of the Tigris and Euphrates, and another book of Sosthenic 'travel' poems which described various trips across the empire, possibly inspired by his presence in the travelling court of Antiochus II.

Kleopatra is said to have been very fond of sculpture and, accordingly, the court was frequently accompanied by expert sculptors who were often employed to adorn Seleucid palaces, create benefactions to cities, make votives and otherwise impress the court. Of particular note was Diomedes of Tyre, active between 249 and 232 BC, during which time his works were spread all across the empire. Few survive in their original forms although a variety of copies have been found. His works perfectly encapsulate the popular trends of the Hellenistic; large scenes with many intricate details and a lot of ornamentation. His most famous, the Birth of Aphrodite, became iconic for its depiction of the goddess rising from the waves, flanked on one side by a huge wave which not only provides hidden support for the goddess, but appears to threaten to swallow her entirely. After Diomedes' death in 232, one Menecrates was also very popular although more renowned for his so-called 'Scenes of Agony' and his love of themes relating to the sudden whims of fate and downfall of once powerful characters. From him, the most famous works were the 'Death of Brennus', characterising the former Galatian king as an inherently tragic, but somewhat romantic, figure, and the 'Defeat of Lysimachus', depicting the former king sat on a log, wounded and staring out as if over the battlefield at Koroupedion.

While the king was the centrepiece of court life, Kleopatra was just as important in many ways. Indeed, one observer even questioned whether it was the court of Antiochus or the court of Kleopatra. Throughout her time as queen, Kleopatra shaped the court in her own image, inviting many of the scholars and artists it became so famous for. In particular, it was Kleopatra who is known to have first patronised the ever-popular Sosthenes as well as the famous ethnographer Diogenes of Pella whose works, describing the peoples and customs of the Seleucid empire (and just beyond its borders) were the inspiration for many later ethnographies and travel writers. Indeed, during the latter part of Antiochus' reign (and into the reign of Seleucus III), what might be termed 'ethnographic peripli' became a very popular genre of literature. Probably inspired by the peripli of the Persian Gulf, Armenia, and Caucasus mountains commissioned by Antiochus, these travel writings became a huge genre in the Seleucid court and beyond, reaching as far as Rome.

Dynasty and Family:

Between 260 and 248 BCE, Antiochus and Kleopatra had some five children. Seleucus, (b.259), Laodice (b. 256), Apama (b. 252), Antiochus (b. 250), Demetrius (b. 248). Between them, these five children would come to play a major role in the political events and court life of the Seleucid empire. His eldest son, Seleucus, was elevated to co-king in 225 BCE but had been an active, and popular, member of the court long before then. Renowned for his love of luxury and high living, Seleucus is said to have grown up around the poets and philosophers of his kingdom, greatly enjoying their works and producing some of his own. In the 220s, Seleucus contributed to this by funding new royal libraries in many of the royal cities of the kingdom, calling for books to be copied and distributed amongst them for the enjoyment of himself and his aristocrats. By the time of his father's death, however, only one of these libraries was completed; the library of Seleukeia and many copies would not be made until Seleucus' own reign. The others will be dealt with in time.

Kleopatra, however, should not go ignored. Aside from her patronage of the arts, Kleopatra was also a force to be reckoned with politically. During her husband's absences from court life (often during battles or on campaigns away from Seleucid cities), Kleopatra was almost exclusively in charge. As de facto power alongside her husband, Kleopatra became famous for her ruthless control of court life and etiquette, promoting a much stricter hierarchy of attendants and court officials than had existed before. She also became known for ruthlessly quashing any potential rebellion. In 248 BCE, she is said to have had no fewer than seventeen high officials of the court rounded up and put to death when it became apparent that some of them had been plotting a coup. While, as in the case of the Babylonian aristocrats, she could be forgiving, her style tended more towards crushing opposition when it appears than towards mercy.

Of course, as all queens, Kleopatra also acted as benefactor. Throughout her long tenure as queen (and subsequently as queen mother), Kleopatra used her immense wealth and connections to make benefactions and building programmes all across the empire. She contributed to new temples in many of the Ionian cities, funded the reconstruction of parts of Nikaea after an earthquake and, famously, is said to have secured the grain supply for the city of Tyre for an entire year after the Tyrian revolution in 247 BCE. In doing so, she was acting in the same role as the king; as benefactor, she was extending the connections and access of the royal family across the empire, reaching into cities and ensuring the continued relationships between these cities and the king.​
 
This timeline just keeps getting better! Do the Seleucids continue to depict themselves with the horns of Ammon?

So unless I've missed something the empire is for the moment at the top of the world, will Antiochus ever consider integrating the loyal peoples of Mesopotamia more into the army? Perhaps even train some of them in the phalanx.

Also will Dionysus worship develop different in this timeline? As it was during the hellenistic period that be really lost most of his terrifying god of madness characteristics and was centered more on party and revelry.
 
This timeline just keeps getting better! Do the Seleucids continue to depict themselves with the horns of Ammon?

So unless I've missed something the empire is for the moment at the top of the world, will Antiochus ever consider integrating the loyal peoples of Mesopotamia more into the army? Perhaps even train some of them in the phalanx.

Also will Dionysus worship develop different in this timeline? As it was during the hellenistic period that be really lost most of his terrifying god of madness characteristics and was centered more on party and revelry.

Of course they depict themselves with the horns! The horns are such a well-known part of Hellenistic iconography and used extensively by Seleucus so it only makes sense. For now, the people of Mesopotamia and Central Asia are already part of the army although we're perhaps a bit away from integration into the phalanx. That said, it is only a matter of time before the Seleucids are forced to rely more and more upon them.

And I've actually got some fun ideas for Dionysus! I don't want to spoil anything but I do think we'll see some divergence from our timeline in the development of Dionysus and, possibly, a few different incarnations of Dionysus running around. And thank you for the positive feedback! It is always great to hear!
 
Of course they depict themselves with the horns! The horns are such a well-known part of Hellenistic iconography and used extensively by Seleucus so it only makes sense. For now, the people of Mesopotamia and Central Asia are already part of the army although we're perhaps a bit away from integration into the phalanx. That said, it is only a matter of time before the Seleucids are forced to rely more and more upon them.

And I've actually got some fun ideas for Dionysus! I don't want to spoil anything but I do think we'll see some divergence from our timeline in the development of Dionysus and, possibly, a few different incarnations of Dionysus running around. And thank you for the positive feedback! It is always great to hear!
Great! Seleucus did try and say that the horns were because of him wrestling a bull, but it was a pretty blatant attempt to put himself at the same level of Alexander, so I assume they will become a definitive part of royal iconography. Yeah that makes sense as the diadochi were very reluctant to allow the natives to train in the Macedonian way of war, waiting to read where this goes!

Dying to hear your ideas for Dionysus! This timeline is awesome so of course I'll give positive feedback lmao, it's perhaps inspiring me to write one of my own.
 
Im curious, does kleopatra (and other seleucid queens) sponsor the cults of particular goddesses in a similar manner that the men are sponsoring certain gods?
 
Im curious, does kleopatra (and other seleucid queens) sponsor the cults of particular goddesses in a similar manner that the men are sponsoring certain gods?

That is a really interesting question and the answer is almost certainly yes to some extent. I would have to do some more reading but what I can say is that queens were not limited to only supporting causes approved by the king. A good example is Laodike III and Iasos in 195 BC in our timeline where she basically granted a whole set of grain to the city of Iasos but commands that they sell the excess and use the money to provide for poor women in the city. This isn't a religious thing but it does show that queens had power to make whatever benefactions and sponsorships they wanted. In our timeline, Antiochus II gave Laodike I lands upon their divorce so it is worth remembering that queens were landholders with immense personal wealth as well. This is all to say that there is no doubt that Seleucid queens could sponsor whatever cults they wanted, certainly Greek cults that is. With non-Greek cults the answer is a solid... maybe? As far as I am aware, there are no known examples of Seleucid queens sponsoring specific gods and cults (beyond the obvious ability to influence the king to do so) but, then again, our knowledge of the Seleucids sponsoring specific cults is very hazy to begin with.

The Ezida, for example, is a very isolated instance of something like this. As far as we can tell, the Seleucid kings only made a Babylonian-style foundational inscription one time and that was under Antiochus I. Their participation in the Babylonian New Year festival is also only attested this one time and many scholars believe that they rarely, if ever, participated in the same way Babylonian kings had. Later in the Seleucid dynasty (specifically from around the time of OTL Antiochus IV onwards), the priorities and approach of the Seleucids seems to undergo a change away from manipulation of tradition and towards poliadisation in which they 'refound' some cities as poleis and start to break the power of traditional authorities.

In Babylon, for example, Antiochus IV basically subverts the traditional authorities by introducing a second governing body, the 'Assembly of Esagil'. The other famous example, of course, is Jerusalem although recent scholarship has found that the Seleucids had some sort of alternative political-religious body active in the region from the time of its reclamation under Antiochus III. I apologise, this went a bit deeper than I expected but I think it's very cool and worthy of discussion.​
 
Interesting. I know I've heard about the Ptolomaic queen's associating themselves with hellenized forms of isis so it seemed only natural that the Seleucid queens should have their own equivalent. The main goddess that comes to mind would be Aphrodite, especially since you've already mentioned a statue of her, but also because she can be readily connected to goddesses of the near east (astarte in Syria & Ishtar in Babylon), though in Anatolia Cybele is just as good a choice as any.
 
This is one of the more interesting TLs on this site at the moment, with an empire that isn't often used--congrats on that, and waiting for more...
 
Chapter Twenty
Chapter Twenty: Connections and Interactions

So far, we've talked a lot about the various interactions between the king and the constituent communities of his empire. We have, however, spent less time discussing the interactions within the empire, largely between those same communities. At the time, the empire of Antiochus II was a massively unifying force, stretching from Greece in the west to Afghanistan in the east and encompassing millions of people spread over hundreds of cities, towns, and villages. At the centre of this was, of course, the region around Mesopotamia and Syria. However, despite its apparent absence from the narrative thus far, areas such as Central Asia must not be treated simply as peripheral (despite my own using of the term in previous chapters). At the very centre of the empire lay the Tetrarchy and, especially, the cities of Antioch-on-Orontes, in Syria, and Seleukeia-on-Tigris in Mesopotamia. In the mid-3rd Century, Seleukeia's population was certainly somewhere in the hundreds of thousands and Antioch's possibly close to 100,000 (although we aren't sure). Certainly, by the beginning of the 2nd Century, Seleukeia's population has been estimated at close to 800,000 people and had, alongside Alexandria, gained a reputation for its fabulous wealth and connectivity.

From Seleukeia, trade routes ran east through Iran (under the Seleucids, they largely moved through Ecbatana and the northern stretches of the country) towards Afghanistan and India and up into central Asia. These trade routes formed the backbone of the networks of interaction (and sometimes conflict) that stretched across the empire, providing wealth, influence and cultural exchange. In the north, trade routes ran up through Antioch-on-Margiana to Bukhara and, from there, east towards Samarkand and the Fergana valley or north towards the Kyzyl-kum desert. Margiana, by contrast, seems to have been preferred as a starting point for trade up to Chorasmia (around the Aral Sea). It was in Bukhara that, in 237 BCE, Antiochus II received some hundred horses from the Fergana valley, famous for their hardiness and size. Burials from across central Asia have revealed a wide variety of goods of Hellenistic origin including glass beads, faience, some pieces of pottery and, on one occasion, a whole Seleucid cuirass. From the Fergana valley, traders took goods ever further east, past the Taklamakan desert and on towards East Asia where some Hellenistic goods have been found in Chinese tombs as early as the 4th Century. In return, horses and gold are both known to have been exchanged by the peoples of the Kyzyl-kum and Fergana regions.

One of Antiochus II's successors (either Seleucus III or Antiochus III) is known to have commissioned at least one periegesis of the Fergana valley and Taklamakan although it does not survive and the author is known to have turned back shortly after arriving at the Taklamakan desert itself. Of course, the other major trade active in the region was in soldiers. Under the Persians, Iran and Central Asia was the main source of cavalry and, at Gaugemala, some 20,000 cavalrymen had been supplied from Central Asia alone. In the armies of the Seleucid empire, cataphracts and horse archers had been popular since the time of Seleucus I and continued to be used under his successors. Despite a short rise in the prestige of Thessalian cavalry beginning with Antiochus II (and the continued trend of keeping some Thessalian cavalrymen until the time of Seleucus IV at the least), Iranian and Central Asian cavalry continued to rise in prominence in the Seleucid army. Many of these came from subject communities but not all. Here in the cities of Margiana, Bukhara, and Samarkand, all sorts of bands of warriors sought their riches. On occasion, this involved raiding; plundering raids or even larger expeditions were far from unknown. Indeed, in the mid-230s, Antiochus himself arrived in the region and fought a cavalry engagement not far from Bukhara. However, trade and the sale of military services were also well known facets of this relationship and Seleucid armies frequently employed Saka and Parni cavalry as the Persians had done before them.
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Pastoral products also appear to have been regularly imported as well as, as mentioned, horses which were often bought (and on occasion seized) by Seleucid kings or governors. In 234, fresh from his campaigns against the Parni, Antiochus turned his attention towards campaigning in the Fergana valley. In the 300s, Alexander had founded the city of Alexandria-Eschate on the western end of the valley which formed the easternmost boundary of Seleucid control in this period. Nevertheless, Antiochus launched a campaign in 234 with mixed results, returning with another tribute of 3-400 horses but no lasting territorial gains (although it is unlikely that he intended to make permanent gains).
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In Afghanistan, the cities of Ai Khanoum and Bactra were especially important. Ai Khanoum lay on the confluence of the Kokcha and Oxus rivers. The Oxus provided access north, running up near the Zeravshan river at Samarkand and neatly passing by the trade route between Margiana and Bukhara and Samarkand in the process.Traffic across the Hindu Kush appears to have been commonplace and busy; silk, spices, jewels, cotton, and many other goods were in high demand back in the heartland of the Seleucid empire. From Taxila, a major entrepot on the banks of the Indus River, goods passed further east towards Pataliputra and the heartlands of the Mauryan empire. Ideas, of course, were also passed along. Famous amongst these is Pyrrho who, having accompanied Alexander, may have adapted aspects of Buddhist philosophy into his o wn (although not scholars agree on this). To simplify things, part of Pyrrho's teachings involved finding ways to escape suffering which echoes Buddhist teachings. Without going into too much detail, we might also point to the influence of Greek art within India and, especially, the unique adaptation of Greek artistic forms for Indian uses beginning as early as the 3rd Century. In particular, objects such as the Pataliputra capital are very obvious with this; adapting the rosette style common from Corinthian columns but adapting the shape more from Achaemenid precedents (neither the 'flatter' shape of the capital, nor the sets of two volutes on either side are typical for Corinthian columns).
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Of course, Afghanistan wasn't the only means by which contact and trade with India took place. Ptolemy II had exchanged diplomats with the Mauryan empire via naval trade routes, largely (but not exclusively) dominated by traders from Arabia and Ethiopia and export from India to Ptolemaic Egypt certainly took place. As regards the Seleucids, naval trade along the Persian Gulf to India is well attested, as are very active trade routes to eastern and southern Arabia, especially to the Gerrhaeans in the east, and Amithoscuta (Muscat) and the Sabaeans in the south. From here, one of the most popular products was incense, especially frankincense and myrrh although many Arabian traders were very active in the spice trade. In the north of the Arabian peninsula, Seleucid interactions largely revolved around a variety of nomadic groups who often crossed the desert, also trading in incense and, to some extent, spice.

Whether from the Persian gulf or from Central Asia, many of these trade routes converged on Mesopotamia and, especially, the markets of Seleukeia. By the mid-2nd Century, at least, the markets of Seleukeia were famous for their wealth and variety, selling anything and everything you could want and, of course, greatly enriching the Seleucid kings themselves. This, in turn, required an intricate city bureaucracy. Exactly how this was run is largely unknown although we know that many major Seleucid cities, certainly by the mid-2nd Century, had a variety of magistrates and laws relating to preventing smuggling, theft, and fraud. Camel routes overland from Arabia seem to have largely veered west, skipping Mesopotamia entirely and making their way via the fort at Palmyra and on towards Antioch and Phoenicia. From there, trade routes ran by sea towards the wider Mediterranean or overland through southern Anatolia.​
 
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the former running in a wide bend through the Hindu Kush and towards Taxila
I'm pretty sure this isn't right; the river originates somewhere in the Hindu Kush and flows towards Ai-Khanoum, where it joins the Oxus, not towards Taxila.

with the route between Bakhmut and Samarkand
I think you mean Bactra here

But aside from these minor points it is a genuinely fascinating update! Great to see the details about the eastern half of the empire. And as someone who writes a TL about roughly the same time periode I only wish I could update it every day. Keep up the good work!
 
I'm pretty sure this isn't right; the river originates somewhere in the Hindu Kush and flows towards Ai-Khanoum, where it joins the Oxus, not towards Taxila.


I think you mean Bactra here

But aside from these minor points it is a genuinely fascinating update! Great to see the details about the eastern half of the empire. And as someone who writes a TL about roughly the same time periode I only wish I could update it every day. Keep up the good work!

Yeah the Kokcha river one has been fixed, whoops! I actually meant Margiana, not Bukhara. The Amu Darya only narrowly avoids joining the Zeravshan river which runs past Samarkand. My mistake was I put Bukhara on the wrong side of the river. If you can't tell, I was teaching myself Central Asian and Afghan geography on the fly when I was writing the update.

Honestly, I just have a lot of time on my hands right now! That said, it's always great to get such good feedback from someone who has written such an iconic timeline though!
 
The small details like these are one of the reasons I love this timeline, it shows the effects The Seleucids are having on the world from Hellas all the way to Bactria. Actually is there a reason they haven't tried to secede ? I assume because Antiochus Soter is in a much stronger position than in RL.

Will The Seleucids eventually start going the route of the Ptolomies? As in acting as they are god's incarnated. And how popular is the dinasty for the moment? I assume they are fairly popular in Syria and Mesopotamia especially in Babylon as Seleucus was apparently well liked by them

Changed my username by the way lmao.
 
The small details like these are one of the reasons I love this timeline, it shows the effects The Seleucids are having on the world from Hellas all the way to Bactria. Actually is there a reason they haven't tried to secede ? I assume because Antiochus Soter is in a much stronger position than in RL.

Will The Seleucids eventually start going the route of the Ptolomies? As in acting as they are god's incarnated. And how popular is the dinasty for the moment? I assume they are fairly popular in Syria and Mesopotamia especially in Babylon as Seleucus was apparently well liked by them

Changed my username by the way lmao.

Well bear in mind that the timeline has mostly only gotten up until the 250s politically. We aren’t entirely sure when Bactria revolted in our timeline but it is likely sometime between c. 255 and 240. It also apparently coincided with the revolt of Parthia which ended with the conquest of Parthia by the Parni.

Antiochus II was possibly part of the cause in our timeline; he appointed Diodotus and then proceeded to spend a few years fighting (with little success) in Syria and then got murdered- hardly a great environment for maintaining Bactria. The Parni also seem likely to have conquered Parthia in part *because* it was revolting.

In this timeline, Antiochus II is more successful in Coele-Syria and doesn’t get murdered because there’s no sudden divorce creating an issue of two queens. That gives him a lot more freedom to hold the empire together.

Also the Seleucids already took divine honours. For a time, it used to be believed that they were only divinised after death until the time of Seleucus II IOTL. However, most scholars nowadays think that the Seleucids already took divine honours during life from as early as Seleucus I.

Popularity is a hard topic. Really, it varies; they’ll be more popular in some communities and with some people than with others.​

Just wondering but will there be another shot at setting up Greek colonies in India when the Mauryan empire implodes like OTL?

Possibly…
 
Such an interesting timeline and well-researched! I m looking forward to read more!

Just a minor detail: the use of periplous for land exploration. Since it literally means "to sail around" it is weird using it for land. In contrast, Instead, I would suggest the term periegesis - to go around, famously being the title of Pausanias' work.
 
Well bear in mind that the timeline has mostly only gotten up until the 250s politically. We aren’t entirely sure when Bactria revolted in our timeline but it is likely sometime between c. 255 and 240. It also apparently coincided with the revolt of Parthia which ended with the conquest of Parthia by the Parni.

Antiochus II was possibly part of the cause in our timeline; he appointed Diodotus and then proceeded to spend a few years fighting (with little success) in Syria and then got murdered- hardly a great environment for maintaining Bactria. The Parni also seem likely to have conquered Parthia in part *because* it was revolting.

In this timeline, Antiochus II is more successful in Coele-Syria and doesn’t get murdered because there’s no sudden divorce creating an issue of two queens. That gives him a lot more freedom to hold the empire together.

Also the Seleucids already took divine honours. For a time, it used to be believed that they were only divinised after death until the time of Seleucus II IOTL. However, most scholars nowadays think that the Seleucids already took divine honours during life from as early as Seleucus I.

Popularity is a hard topic. Really, it varies; they’ll be more popular in some communities and with some people than with others.​
Oh yeah, that is very true I had forgotten how spotty the record is for these events, also very interesting that the Parni arrived at such a good moment for them. So a far more successful and longer-lived Antiochus, so for the moment being Bactria and Diodotus will be kept in line good for the empire.

I really need to do some more reading it would seem lmao, very fascinating the use and function of the divine honors. I would assume that in Mesopotamia and Syria, they are popular but I assume this will be explored on the timeline. Keep up the great writing!
 
Such an interesting timeline and well-researched! I m looking forward to read more!

Just a minor detail: the use of periplous for land exploration. Since it literally means "to sail around" it is weird using it for land. In contrast, Instead, I would suggest the term periegesis - to go around, famously being the title of Pausanias' work.​
That is honestly such a good point! I've edited it and will use periegesis in the future! Glad you're enjoying the work!
Oh yeah, that is very true I had forgotten how spotty the record is for these events, also very interesting that the Parni arrived at such a good moment for them. So a far more successful and longer-lived Antiochus, so for the moment being Bactria and Diodotus will be kept in line good for the empire.

I really need to do some more reading it would seem lmao, very fascinating the use and function of the divine honors. I would assume that in Mesopotamia and Syria, they are popular but I assume this will be explored on the timeline. Keep up the great writing!​

Well it's complex. The Parthian rebellion seems to have taken place before Diodotus' rebellion because, traditionally, Diodotus' rebellion took place around the same time as (or shortly after) the Parni conquered Parthia. But a lot of the sources are very jumbled in their description of the rebellion including some downright mistakes. Justin, for example, places the revolt of Bactria and the Parni invasion in 256 BCE (because he mentions the consulship of Lucius Manlius Vulso and Marcus Attilius Regulus) but then talks about Seleucus II marching against them. The problem with that is that Seleucus II didn't become king until a full decade later. Appian places the revolt in 246 BCE and Ptolemy III included Bactria in the regions he conquered from the Seleucids during his invasion (which cannot have taken place before 246 BCE because the invasion was in direct response to the murder of Berenice after the assassination of Antiochus II).

As for divine honours, the earliest examples we have of them for the Seleucids actually come from Greek city states; OGIS 219, for instance, is an inscription from Ilion dating to 279-4 BCE which attests to a 'priest of King Antiochus', suggesting that Antiochus already had divine honours in the city. Indeed, it may go back even further to Demetrius Poliorketes who, in the processional song for his arrival at Athens is clearly placed in a divine (or near-divine) status. Certainly, there seems to have been a cult to Antigonus and Demetrius set up sometime during the 290s after the expulsion of Cassander's garrison. Generally speaking, the initiative for establishing ruler cult was to come from the cities themselves. As far as we know, the Seleucids did not establish the cult themselves until the time of Antiochus III; it was often a polis institution.

Also remember that Babylonia didn't have a tradition of ruler cults. Babylonian kings did not hold the same status as, say, Egyptian pharaohs. What we do not see in Babylonia, for instance, are kings also acting as, say, high priests. When Antiochus I rebuilt the Ezida, he was doing so as king because the expectation for a Babylonian king was for him to act as a builder and restorer rather than because he had any spiritual power which, as far as my research has found, he had very little of (because, again, he was not a priest but a king and those two concepts were more separate in Babylonian religion than in Greek). The thing is, if we accept ruler cult as a polis institution, then it probably only exists at this date within cities (either Greek poleis or, to use Mileta's terminology, demoi, that is to say, non-polis cities).

(By divine honours, I specifically mean divinity granted or accepted while the individual is still alive rather than after their death)​
 
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Chapter Twenty-One
Chapter Twenty-One: The Campaigns of Antiochus II (253-230 BCE).

The Second Syrian War was far from the end of Antiochus' ambitions. Within only two years of the end of the war, Antiochus II was back on campaign, this time in Anatolia. In 251 BCE, the Seleucid king sent some 6000 soldiers and 50 war elephants to Ptolemy to fulfil his end of the bargain made with Pyrrhus several years earlier, soldiers which would largely be used in several campaigns throughout Illyria over the next few years. At the same time, Antiochus launched his own campaigns deep into Anatolia. Cappadocia, though formally a Seleucid satrapy, seems to have been operating largely independently at this date and, between 251 and 250 BCE, Antiochus launched the first of two campaigns into the region. The official justification was a succession dispute in Cappadocia which provided the ideal opportunity and justification for a military intervention. In 247, Antiochus would return to Cappadocia to campaign against a rebellion in the north-western regions around Nyssa. In 246, this was followed up by a campaign even further north into Pontus which largely ended without much fanfare beyond a nominal submission by the Pontic kings at Amaseia. Perhaps his most famous campaign, however, was the conquest of Bithynia, taking place over some three campaigns in 244-3, 242-1, and 240 BCE. The invasion of Bithynia was a huge success, helping organise north-western Anatolia into a brand new satrapy and allowing Antiochus to establish an alliance with Heraklia in Pontus.

In 239, Antiochus visited Pella where he was welcomed warmly and where he distributed huge sums of wealth to temples around the city. In the same year, he sent ambassadors to the Roman Republic, apparently having taken some interest in the affairs of the western Mediterranean after the conclusion of the Sicilian War (which had culminated in Rome's conquest of Sicily and, later, their seizure of Sardinia and Corsica). In all likelihood, these delegations were an attempt to establish and obtain information about what was going on in Rome and to size up the new republic which was now truly making waves in the Mediterranean, especially given the friendly relationship between Rome and the Ptolemies, established by Ptolemy Philadelphus in the early 3rd Century. It was also probably this interest which convinced Antiochus to restart the rebuilding of the Seleucid fleet and to renew his relations with Ptolemy who, fresh from his campaigns in Illyria, was currently riding high.

Nevertheless, Antiochus does not seem to have remained in Macedonia for very long because, by 237 BCE, he was back in Central Asia. In that year, he bought horses from the Fergana valley and, famously, was so impressed by them that he declared that his cavalry bodyguard would only ride these horses. In 236/5, he fought the Parni just north of the border and sent ambassadors to several of the settled communities of the Kyzyl-Kum. In 234, apparently seeking more of those same horses, Antiochus launched a campaign into the Fergana valley but made few permanent gains beyond obtaining more horses. In the end, he seems to have attempted to bring back some of these horses to act as breeding stock, possibly hoping to expand his father's elephant breeding grounds at Apamea but, if that was the case, he was unsuccessful and continued to purchase horses for the foreseeable future. At the end of this campaign, Antiochus dedicated a new temple at Alexandria-Eschate and settled several hundred veterans in the city. After a short stint in Bactria, where Antiochus famously met the poet Sosthenes (apparently staying in Bactra at the behest of the satrap, Diodotus II), Antiochus began the long march back to Mesopotamia.

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Note from the Author: Short one for today just to catch a few things up to speed before we go onwards and it neatly allows me to finish up 'Part One'. Going forward, I plan to try and expand the perspective somewhat to deal with things from other points of view beyond simply the Seleucid empire.
 
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