The US as a Central Power in 1914

Dave Shoup

Banned
In this scenario pretty much everything is different. People like Pershing and Wilson might never have been born ... The PoD is that Jackson survives, his command averts disaster at Gettysburg, and an Anglo-French Intervention forces a negotiation.

Wilson was born in 1856; Pershing was born in 1860. Gettysburg was fought in 1863.
 
I may be the odd man out here, but I think the RN and Canada are being sold short here. A hostile US will cause a different Canadian military, with a larger Army AND Navy. The RN has bases from Canada, Bermuda (easy steaming distance to the US East Coast) and throughout the Caribbean. The RN has a well balanced force, with good radio comms. This also says nothing of what the CSN will have, which will be nothing to sneeze at. All that means you have to either choose a more balanced but smaller USN, or keep the same as OTL, which is badly unbalanced. If the RN decides to move for a fleet action against the USN, they can (provided the USN force is as OTL) almost certainly give the USN a good thrashing.
 
I may be the odd man out here, but I think the RN and Canada are being sold short here. A hostile US will cause a different Canadian military, with a larger Army AND Navy. The RN has bases from Canada, Bermuda (easy steaming distance to the US East Coast) and throughout the Caribbean. The RN has a well balanced force, with good radio comms. This also says nothing of what the CSN will have, which will be nothing to sneeze at. All that means you have to either choose a more balanced but smaller USN, or keep the same as OTL, which is badly unbalanced. If the RN decides to move for a fleet action against the USN, they can (provided the USN force is as OTL) almost certainly give the USN a good thrashing.

That seems plausible. Is that also taking into account the Kaiserliche Marine?
 
I may be the odd man out here, but I think the RN and Canada are being sold short here. A hostile US will cause a different Canadian military, with a larger Army AND Navy. The RN has bases from Canada, Bermuda (easy steaming distance to the US East Coast) and throughout the Caribbean. The RN has a well balanced force, with good radio comms. This also says nothing of what the CSN will have, which will be nothing to sneeze at. All that means you have to either choose a more balanced but smaller USN, or keep the same as OTL, which is badly unbalanced. If the RN decides to move for a fleet action against the USN, they can (provided the USN force is as OTL) almost certainly give the USN a good thrashing.
The royal navy won't be able to force the USN into an unfavorable battle, especially since the Grand Fleet can't leave the North Sea.
 
All that means you have to either choose a more balanced but smaller USN, or keep the same as OTL, which is badly unbalanced.
Or with hostile UK and Canada, the US spends more $$$ for a larger, balanced Fleet than OTL.

From a spending of $145M in 1863, the USN budget consistantly stayed around $15M a year till 1890, with the birth of the New Steel Navy and the next decade had an average budget of around $20M, and decade after the Spanish American War averaged $88M. From then till the start of US Entry to the Great War, around $140M. In the '20-30s was consistantly over $350M, with 1919-22 being an average of $950 before the Naval Conferences kicked in.

US Naval Spending of $80M from 1890 to the SpAm War, then $140M till 1914 makes for a whole different USN, as that kind of spending gets you close to 'Second to None' by 1914, as back then a modest Dreadnought like USS South Carolina cost $6M and Oil fired Super Dreadnought like Nevada cost $15M
 
The royal navy won't be able to force the USN into an unfavorable battle, especially since the Grand Fleet can't leave the North Sea.
I'm not convinced of that. It all depends upon how many cruisers the ATL USN has built. If its as OTL, then they are very much at a disadvantage in scouting, and can be maneuvered into a battle, possibly into one where a detachment of the main fleet is destroyed in detail. With the numerical advantage the RN held over the HSF, they could detach some units to reinforce whatever is in Canada to do this, then return home. This would be risky but possible.
 
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